The mysteries of part numbers? CBZB Timing chains??

[benzinkopf]

great post. i’m planning to do change the chain too and it is very confusing with the new improved chain type and old one coz i’m not sure which I had now and where to find the ‘improved’ version. Now my mileage turning 274k km, i think i really really need to consider changing the chain soon. Thanks for the topic. Will go through again in details [emoji1360].


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[2stroke]

The CBZA/CBZB/CBZC produced till the end of 2011 had some problems
(first of all the timing chain which prematurely streched within few ten thousand of km's, then the turbo's wastegate who required a shim of 2 mm, etc. etc.).
But since late 2012 it became a pretty reliable engine.

I was probably the first one in Europe to update my 2010 engine to the latest chain's components design for the EA111 engine.
I posted a guide with photos on many forums and helped tons of users to do the same work on their cars with this same engine.
I also posted some videos on YouTube.

I never posted the guide on this forum, because I noticed there are not so many 1.2 TSI EA111 owners in the UK.
Maybe in the next week, as soon as I'll have some free time, I could do it.

Last year I remapped and did some others modifications to the intake and the exhaust.
I would never come back.
The actual torque curve makes the car addicting to drive !

At the moment I've driven about 30.000 km with the latest chain ("J" type) and everything is ok.
With the "G" type chain I drove about 40-45.000 km without any issue.
Then I discovered SKODA had released a new chain ("J" type) and I replaced it again by myself.

SKODA workshops installs the updated "B" chain kit on these 1.2 TSI EA111 engines.

Jay-Jay

Did you ever wrote a step by step guide in English on what parts needed and how to do the change of the parts ?

[Jay-Jay]

No, I didn't, but I could translate it when I'll have some free time. In the while, you can read it using Google Translate.

[2stroke]

No, I didn't, but I could translate it when I'll have some free time.
In the while, you can read it using Google Translate.

I'm buying a Skoda Fabia 1.2 TSI SCOUT ( 105 Hp. ) with 151000 Km.
Production month: June 2010
Engine code: CBZB

I want to immediately do preventive service on the engine.
What parts and VAG part #'s do I need to order ?

I'm very curious about the work you put into the rest of the engine to get a little more power from it !?!?

[Mohtech]

Hi I just purchased a polo tsi with engine CBZB , manufactured 2014 date 07.08.2013. and I wonder if this range is also affected by the timing chain problem. It has 41709km on the odometer.

Is there a way to know. Tnx

[Jay-Jay]

Your engine already has the latest updated timing chain.
It is not perfect, but it's better than the previous version.
From what I read on other forums, it lasts about 150/200.000 km.
It can sometimes rattle at cold starts, but it's not dangerous: it's the chain tensioner which needs few seconds to be filled by oil pressure.
Infact, sometimes, especially with low viscosity oil, it happens that, after you turn off the engine and you don't use your car for a long period of time, the oil drains out from the chain tensioner, so next time you turn on the engine, the tensioner is a bit empty and it needs some seconds to be refilled again with oil.
This symptom can be emphatized if you don't regularly change your oil, because some gunk and oil carbon deposits can (partially) clog some oil passages inside the engine and inside the chain tensioner, slowing down the oil pressure and increasing the time the tensioner needs to be filled with oil and correctly tension the timing chain.

Considering all of this, I highly suggest to use an oil with more viscosity than 5W30 (like 5W40 or even 5W50), and to change it more often than what VW says.
I change oil every 10.000km/1 year on mine.

[Mohtech]

The correct upgrade parts is required on the 1.2 TSI's up to late 2011 only? Thus means that 2013/2014 does not need part improvement on timing chain?

It is good to know I can follow up with regular preventive maintenance and the type of oil that can be used, I have never used the 5w50 before however after you recommendation I learned of it's peologned service interval and it's degreasing capabilities. TNX

[Bzg tinkerer]

Impressive post and very informative.
Have been searching for days for similar info on the BZG engine.
The secrecy and confusion is unreal.

[rdraheim]

Hi All!

I just wanted to add some info about the CBZB engine as this thread is the second-best CBZB thread on the web (the first being in Italian and referred to in this thread).

I currently have a 2011 Golf S w/the CBZB (1.2 TSI w/77kW or 105PS). Bought the car w/5.5k miles and 3 years old. Just hit 98k miles. Wanted to do a quick run down of parts to add to this excellent thread. There are a few Russian threads that are very useful as well (but are in Russian).

Based on the engine serial number it is extremely close to the change over to the new chain but is slightly before the change over. A Russian website has a nice list of engines that are affected based on where the engine was assembled. I actually surmise that it has a revised chain from the factory but not the newest. On the Russian pages, there were three different chains/sprockets installed from the factory. I assume mine is within that tiny window with the second revision but not the newest. The car also has the 2mm shim installed between the turbo body and the actuator valve. I do hear the actuator shaft rattling when I lift off the throttle at around 2-2.5k rpm. The timing chain is quite noisy for 2-3 sec after start-up and the top of the engine is noisy as the lifters fill with oil.

Otherwise, the car has been used the following consumables:

2 x water pumps and v-belts (the OEM was finished at 45k miles and the aftermarket one lasted 25k). I just drove 2 x 800 miles continuously over to Germany and back and I it did use a little coolant. The shafts/bearings on the water pump seem to wear out and it leaks out of the weep hole. I could need another one soon.

1 x ignition coil at 5 years and 30k miles. It seemed to be corroded. 1 x ignition leads ... the #3 is quite close to the turbo and those were changed with the plug as a complete ignition set for around £40/plugs and £60/coil and £40/leads. I had the plugs changed at 76k miles. And just had a very slight misfire after releasing the throttle and getting back on with a slight incline on the Autobahn. Thus, I just had the coil pack/leads and plugs changed again (£120 parts) at 98k miles.

It's had a steady diet of air filters/fuel filters/cabin filters as they're inexpensive as is the labour. Usually around 30k miles.

Had one set of front rotors/pad at 50k and the rears at 75k. All are good now. Fluid is fully flushed every two years that I've owned it, which coincided with the brake changes. It's probably due again.

At the MOT, I have a caution for weeping diff seals and will have the fluid changed next week. I assume that the axles will come out and both seals will be changed.

All in all, the CBZB is solid. The chains in my car seems OK at 100k miles. The water pump and the ignitions leads (near the turbo) seem to be weak points on these engines. I would recommend using German parts and simply do the plugs/coil/leads for around £120 every 30k miles. The shop charges only 30min of labour (£48/h+VAT) for that.

Also, change the oil regularly (I do 5W-40 full syn/OEM filter every 8-10k miles) as old oil blocks the passage for the chain tensioner to fill quickly. Also, older oil wears the chains out quickly.

Anyways, I hope that helps someone out there and good luck with these great engines.

[rdraheim]

Also, this is a very nice forum. Thank you for letting me contribute. Have a nice evening and good luck to your respective teams these next few weeks

[0M3N]

Hi,lots of good info on here on this subject.I have a 2011 VW Golf TSI 1.2 CBZA,the date of manufacture on the logbook is April 2011,so looks like I have probably have the dodgy first edition of the timing chain.Car has 40k miles,and FSH,so I want to get the chain sorted before it starts to stretch,(unless it has already,it is a bit noisy on cold starts).
I have seen the Skoda timing kit online,(03F198158B) and ideally I would get that fitted,but VW garage will not fit it,as they do not stock the kit themselves.
Instead,they have offered to fit timing chain 03F109158K,which I think is the second version of the timing chain? Assuming they also fit a newer tensioner aswell,do you think this will be enough,or should I try and find an independant garage to fit the Skoda kit?

[TR90]

Your engine already has the latest updated timing chain.
It is not perfect, but it's better than the previous version.
From what I read on other forums, it lasts about 150/200.000 km.
It can sometimes rattle at cold starts, but it's not dangerous: it's the chain tensioner which needs few seconds to be filled by oil pressure.
Infact, sometimes, especially with low viscosity oil, it happens that, after you turn off the engine and you don't use your car for a long period of time, the oil drains out from the chain tensioner, so next time you turn on the engine, the tensioner is a bit empty and it needs some seconds to be refilled again with oil.
This symptom can be emphatized if you don't regularly change your oil, because some gunk and oil carbon deposits can (partially) clog some oil passages inside the engine and inside the chain tensioner, slowing down the oil pressure and increasing the time the tensioner needs to be filled with oil and correctly tension the timing chain.

Considering all of this, I highly suggest to use an oil with more viscosity than 5W30 (like 5W40 or even 5W50), and to change it more often than what VW says.
I change oil every 10.000km/1 year on mine.

Has anyone tested this - using the older timing chain tensioner on the newest chain set after 150.000km? Jay-jay what's you opinion?

The older chain tensioner is a bit longer than the newer one. As chains wear, they get elongated. I was thinking that after 150.000 km on the new chain set, if you put the older, longer tensioner it will compensate the slack, would this be a viable option?

I hope you all understood what i'm trying to say here..

tensioner.png (1.59 MiB) Viewed 2653 times

[Jay-Jay]

I don't know if somebody ever tried this, but I'd personally would be afraid of doing it.
I'm not an expert, but something makes me think that the spring inside the piston of the old tensioner version would be too much compressed and it could not work properly or (in the worst case) it could brake, with the consequence that the tensioner could not be able to tension the chain at all.
I remember of a friend who worked in a spring factory and he once told me that springs have a specific load index and a precise compression resistance. Once you surpass the compression threshold, the spring loses almost all of its resistance.
Plus to that, I'd consider also if the new position of the tensioner chain guide could interfere with other moving parts...
It's something that would need engineering knowledge (that I don't have) and the balls to try it on the engine.
If someone has ever done this mod, I'd be more than happy to read their experience.

[TR90]

I don't know if somebody ever tried this, but I'd personally would be afraid of doing it.
I'm not an expert, but something makes me think that the spring inside the piston of the old tensioner version would be too much compressed and it could not work properly or (in the worst case) it could brake, with the consequence that the tensioner could not be able to tension the chain at all.
I remember of a friend who worked in a spring factory and he once told me that springs have a specific load index and a precise compression resistance. Once you surpass the compression threshold, the spring loses almost all of its resistance.
Plus to that, I'd consider also if the new position of the tensioner chain guide could interfere with other moving parts...
It's something that would need engineering knowledge (that I don't have) and the balls to try it on the engine.
If someone has ever done this mod, I'd be more than happy to read their experience.

Good to hear your opinion also Yeah I believe there would be a risk. I'm planning on doing the CBZB chain set replacement during summer, bought the newest kit with the oil pump chain, i'll replace the serpentine belt also.
Here's also another interesting thing i've come across during researching - there is the plastic oil pump chain cover, where one user drilled a hole into it (he says it helps with lubricating the oil pump chain during startup, the oil also gets guided towards the timing chain)

The 1.4 TSI EA111 engine has a similar oil pump chain setup, but there has been already two revisions on the cover. The 1.2 TSI has only one revision. The newest 1.4 TSI revision has a hole on the bottom, and I think there is some reason behind this? Lubricating properties I guess? I'll put a picture here, what's your opinion on this Jay-Jay

oilcover.png (855.44 KiB) Viewed 2411 times

[Jay-Jay]

As I already said, I'm not an expert and I don't have engineering knowledge.
All I know comes from my direct personal experience and intuitions, so take it with some grant of salt.
Judging by the photos you uploaded, it looks like the 1.2 TSI oil pump chain cover already has sort of a hole at the bottom. To me it looks like it's there for allowing the oil to easily go down in the sump when you shut off the engine and avoiding oil emulsion.
But I'd honestly let the experts speak.