The mysteries of part numbers? CBZB Timing chains??

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Jay-Jay
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

Yes, the 03F198229A repair kit is an old repair kit specific for "pre-Nov. 2011" engines and it was available under VW, Audi and Seat parts's networks.
It's not available anymore now.
It has been discontinued and now you have to order each part one by one.

If you use the online version of ETKA available at ifinterface.com, you can see all the things I'm seeing on the updated PC version.


wolfie wrote: Now I could see which parts were being used and simply buy them from VW. Well that was the plan, but as I have said some of the parts were not listed as separate items so I could not check the numbers or buy them directly.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you...
Why do you keep saying that you want to order the parts of the kit separately?
You don't need to do that! Not all the parts of the kit are available separately (for example the crankshaft sprocket is not available separately). SO, you need to order the 03F198158B kit. Plus to that, you need to order few other parts (like the crankshaft seal), which are available separately.
wolfie wrote: Plus I still could not find a genuine VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat, list of parts included in the kit. (I was simply looking at the numbers in the online kits)
I've just posted the list of the content of the 03F198158B repair kit from ETKA updated PC version... Didn't you see it?

P.S.: I suggest you to visit the forum through the browser, because the photos I've just posted don't appear on my smartphone with Tapatalk App.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

My reason for suggesting that you wolfie buy from that Skoda online trader was based on the fact that you have found that no UK based walk into physical VW dealership will accept an order request from you for that kit, so the next most obvious route should be to walk into a Skoda dealership and ask them to order up a kit for you, or at least find out what the price of supplying a kit would be - and if it is a lot more expensive than the price being quoted by that Skoda Parts online mainland Europe based dealer, then consider ordering it from them.
Now, I'd expect that any kit part number having the "A" suffix would always have the same contents - ie all the parts would be be the same issue/version, and the same thing would apply to a "B" suffix kit, and if any parts were revised that would be reflected in the kit being updated to being a "C" etc etc. Again a typical problem with online sellers of VW Group parts is that they only ever buy discontinued/superseded versions of parts at auction when VW Group are disposing of them - so that at times can cause you problems, but as far as I know, Skoda Parts never ever does that and is probably just a mainland Europe based Skoda main dealership's parts department willing to sell new latest issue parts at a reduced price online.
I'd think that it is down to where you can buy these parts followed up with what risk you are willing to take to save money, I've bought many genuine VW Group new parts from dealers in mainland Europe and I'm also based in UK, I've even bought and personally imported 2 VW cars in the past when it was worth doing moneywise, most of these people are honest traders.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »


RUM4MO wrote: [...]Now, I'd expect that any kit part number having the "A" suffix would always have the same contents - ie all the parts would be be the same issue/version, and the same thing would apply to a "B" suffix kit, and if any parts were revised that would be reflected in the kit being updated to being a "C" etc etc.[…]
That's generally correct and it's what should usually happen!
But it's not what happened in this case! (as if there wasn't enough confusion...)
The 03F198158B repair kit had 2 components updated (I wrote the part numbers change in my previous post): the chain tensioner have been revised around 2015 and the timing chain in summer 2017.
BUT unexpectedly the part number of the kit did NOT change and it still is 03F198158B.
If those 2 parts have been revised there must be a reason!
So, IMHO, to fix the timing chain problem, it's extremely important to buy the repair kit from an authorized parts shop, because they always supply the one with the latest revision content.

I'm not talking about things I only read online or on the pc... I'm talking about things I faced myself!
I personally installed the "first version" of the Kit B in 2015. Then in June 2017 I discovered the timing chain and chain tensioner had been revised further, so I decided to replace everything once again.
And I can guarantee there is a difference between the components, it's not only a matter of different part numbers, but also a matter of different materials, of how the parts have been produced and in which factory (with different tollerances, etc.).
The latest revision of the chain tensioner has a much stronger spring inside than the previous one and the latest revision of the timing chain is now built in Japan instead of United Kingdom.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Jay-Jay wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:52 pm
If you use the online version of ETKA available at ifinterface.com, you can see all the things I'm seeing on the updated PC version.
Thanks for that. Unfortunately over here in the UK, it is showing a 404 server error.
Jay-Jay wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:52 pm Maybe I am misunderstanding you...
Why do you keep saying that you want to order the parts of the kit separately?
You don't need to do that!
Yes you are misunderstanding a little. I was simply trying to chronicle and explain what I had done so far while searching for information. So briefly...

1. Enquired at VW parts dept for repair kit. (NO Kit)
2. Tried to list parts in kit myself from Etka parts catalogue. (Some parts not available individually)
3. Searched for missing part numbers via Internet. (Still could not find them individually but noticed they were in available kits. Found Kits 03F198229, 03F198158A & 03F198158B. But only ''A- Kit" fits my vehicle.(pre 06/11 VW Polo)
4. More searching. (Found your post and others, where people have successfully fitted "B-Kit" to early vehicles.
5. Tried to find out where kit part numbers had come from as I could not see them on any of the versions of Online Etka I had found. (many kits available via the internet, but no genuine VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat)
6. This thread. (Learned that the part numbers are genuine Skoda part numbers. No kit from VW, which is a pain)
7. Today. (Plan to ring Skoda, later today and check price and availability for Kit-B.)

I will see what the cost of a genuine Skoda kit is. I suspect it will be very close to the price of the internet/Ebay kits. If that is the case, that will be the kit I order. My thinking is the same as RUM4MO, that if the kit has the same part number it should have identical parts. Yet during the course of this thread there appears to be a newer version of the timing chain 03F 109 158 J, and yet the Kit part numbers remains the same. Surely if anything within the kit changes, should become "C,D,E...." You have no idea of the age/source of the kits on the internet so it's a lottery as to whether you get a current kit or old stock.

Also I have purchased items via the Ebay/internet in the past that have the correct part number that are clearly copies. So as long as the genuine prices are not ridiculous, I would always go genuine for critical parts. I do not mind on a part that cost pennies and no one ever sees.

I'll update the thread when I get price from Skoda. Online/Ebay prices vary quite a bit from under £100 to around £140+
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

Try this link:- https://ifinterface.com/prog/car/cp2/inprog.php

I now can't use that while on an MS device, but I can easily use it while on iPad etc, a year or so back I could use it on any MS device.

Edit:- maybe also find out the price of the only currently known upgraded part as mentioned by Jay-Jay, just in case you end up finding the Skoda Parts kit price is a lot cheaper than from a local Skoda dealership, buying it and finding that that pricy part is the older spec - which it should not be from Skoda Parts as they, if you investigate them should only be a mainland Europe located Skoda dealership and so only requesting from VW Group fresh kits on demand.

One other small thought, I seem to think that you will now not need to change the chain cover, maybe Jay-Jay could clear that up, not urgent, but as you are trying to "get all your ducks in line" so to speak.

Another Edit:- these prices that you have quoted look very cheap to me, but might be correct.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

Sorry wolfie! Now I understood you perfectly! Since english is not my main language, sometimes I could fall into misunderstandings. :)

Talking about the chain cover.
It has been updated 2 times: it originally was 03F109210B and became 03F109210C and after a short period of time it has been revised again to 03F109210D.
The official TPIs (Technical Product Information documents for authorized workshops) about the timing chain issue, report that the chain cover has been revised with the introduction of four little teeth at the bottom, which prevent the (eventually stretched and elongated) timing chain from jumping one or more teeth of the crankshaft sprocket.
So, by reading this, you'd want to install the latest revision of the chain cover.

Some years ago, with the help of other users, I've been able to discover that, in reality, the first version (letter B) of the chain cover already had the "anti-jump" teeth for the chain at the bottom.
I've not been able to measure those teeth to see if they were exactly the same of those in the latest revision... maybe they were shorter in the oldest version and they could have been made bigger in the latest revision... that would make sense.
In the doubt... it's better to install the latest revision (letter D).
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Cheers RUM4MO

I had to switch to Chrome to get it to work for me but that's great thank you.

Now I have not had too much time to have a good look at it this morning. But depending on which Skoda model you search CBZB on it does indeed list the "B" kit. However something I noticed, is that all the cars I have looked at so far show that the kit is compatible with engine block 03F 103 101 B In fact I have not been able to find a listing with just 03F 103 101. Which sort of agrees with

kit 'A' - Block assy 03F 103 101
Kit 'B' - Block assy 03F 103 101B As indicated on the VW catalogue.

However I need to spend more time looking.

Now I rang Skoda and apart from him being a bit twitchy about me telling him mine was a VW Polo! He was pretty helpful. Price for the 'B' Kit is £91.67 and that includes vat. Now that sound remarkably cheap to me. Cheaper than all the online kits!!! So I may ring again and just confirm the parts included in the kit. In searching the web I have noticed the 03F 198 158 B, is sometimes listed without the sprockets.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

wolfie wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 12:26 pm something I noticed, is that all the cars I have looked at so far show that the kit is compatible with engine block 03F 103 101 B In fact I have not been able to find a listing with just 03F 103 101. Which sort of agrees with

kit 'A' - Block assy 03F 103 101
Kit 'B' - Block assy 03F 103 101B As indicated on the VW catalogue.
I can clarify that for you!
  • Engine block 03F103101 has been produced till 6/11/2011 and It came with the old-style crankshaft sprocket installed from factory.
  • Engine block 03F103101B is produced since 7/11/2011 and it comes with the new-style crankshaft sprocket installed from factory.
So, it's obvious that ETKA shows you that the KIT B is compatible only with engine block 03F103101B.
BUT, if you replace the old-style crankshaft sprocket on your engine with the new-style crankshaft sprocket, you are literally upgrading your engine block from 03F103101 to 03F103101B. :)


I can guarantee you that the 03F198158B repair kit includes all the sprockets you need.

The old 03F198229A and 03F198229B repair kits did not include sprockets. They included only the timing chain and the chain tensioner. Luckily they are discontinued now.

Don't be amazed by the cheap price. It is correct!
Image

And it includes all these things:
Image

I have ETKA PC version with database and pricelist updated (UK pricelist and 20% VAT).
I can see almost the same things a VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat parts shop can see.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Cheers. It's not very often I look at parts and think "That is too cheap!!" :D :D :D

Normally it is more expensive than you expect.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

Ahah, that's the same I thought when I bought the kit two years ago! :lol:
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

I just checked my engine number out of curiosity and it's CBZ 064 112 [24-11-10] So it looks like mine was quite an early car. I bought it in April 2011. I had a look for the part number on the block but could not find it.

Your English is 100% better than my Italian.. :)
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

Wolfie, when or if you walk into a Skoda dealership and request that they order a kit for you, you must resist the temptation to say “it is for a Polo” as that will ring alarm bells in their heads. I bought a B5 VW Passat 4Motion back in May 2000 a factory order from a Holland based car broker, in the winter of that year, I experienced a very serious braking issue as the front brakes were getting “washed out” by salty water on the road - complained directly to VW UK who would not give me an answer over the phone, but would send me a letter, now all that letter said essentially was that was a known issue and they now fit different pads, I could buy these pads from an Audi dealer!! So off I went and asked for new pads which I would be paying for, Audi dealer could not sell me these improved pads as I was going to fit them to a VW, I in that case, had to explain what car I needed them for because at that time I did not have access to an online parts listing, you have that luxury so you don’t need to suffer that pain!"

It sounds like what you require to achieve what you want to do has now been made very clear, the only bits that were initially unclear to me was the chain cover version and the “extra something” - which is the crankshaft pulley, good price though!
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Yeah, thanks to Jay-jay and your kind self, I now have a much better idea of what it all involves. I'm still a little puzzled as to why VW do not appear to have a repair kit, it is simply bizarre, made worse because they appear to have a transition date (6/11/11) from 03F109158K to 03F109158G. It simply looks like that is the date they cut in the new chain, sprockets and tensioner. As they don't do a kit to replace it, they differentiate chain sizes at that date.

It just irritates me, that it takes so much research from half a dozen sources to work out what should be off the self information from VW. I can only think that when the engine was produced the plan was for the chain to be a life of vehicle component, so never generated the information for an update/repair, and couldn't be bothered to generate it retrospectively.

I guess in the end it will come down to whether I can convince the indie I use that it is possible. He's pretty good, the only one I could find that is hooked up to ODIS and capable of doing factory software updates. He might look on the system and say it's not worth the risk?? Who knows. For £90ish I may just buy the kit and mull it over, before Brexit kicks in and it cost £300 for the same bits LOL.

Can't thank you guys enough for all the help. Much appreciated...
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

There are lots of anomalies when dealing with VW Group, simple things like my wife's car is a very late 2015 MY Polo 1.2TSI, it was sent out with a May 15 built engine, but that engine had an earlier low pressure fuel delivery pipe fitted to it at the engine plant, and that caused a slightly dangerous situation where that pipe rubbed against an AC pipe no upgrade pipe available as that pipe was never fitted to cars of that age, I had sort that out myself. The later pipe had a bridge clip fitted to it and as VW Group do not manufacture that pipe, it is bought in with that extra clip fitted, so VW Group do not sell that pipe as an individual item.

Another curio maybe, is that SEAT Ibiza 6J use the same hub carrier as Polo 6R and the same track rod ends, but SEAT use a different self locking nut to secure the track rod end to the hub carrier - that could be due to SEAT not revising the procedure/torque for securing these parts together from the Ibiza 6L model and VW did revise it to reflect the change of design of the securing nut.

I believe that you can't buy a washer pipe repair kit for a 6R Polo, but you can buy and use the same kit used on a Fabia MK2.

There is nothing really new in car manufacturer's not being able to supply parts used elsewhere, I could not buy a new brake servo one way valve for a 1976 MK1 Escort, only a complete servo assembly was available as a spare part, the MK1 Capri used the same servo and you could buy a non return valve for that, which was what I did back then to get round things.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

I feel lucky in that at least I'm not the first person to face this, for the most part the fact finding has already been done. All I have really done is spend some time finding those who have already sorted it and been good enough to share their experiences. I am not sure I would have been so patient if the information wasn't there. I think I would have probably just sold the car and moved on, and possibly away from VAG. (Been driving them since 94)

To be honest I cocked up. I had a Polo 1.9TDI Sport prior to the TSI and really liked it. I sold it because I changed jobs and thought I would be better off with something newer, and a keeper. Sods law, my health went south and my circumstances changed significantly, so with hindsight I would have been better off hanging on to the old 9N. Don't get me wrong, I like the Tsi, but for me it now has a huge question mark as to whether it was the best choice as a keeper, mainly because of the known engine issues associated with TSI and the early version of engine I have in mine. I've heard it said you should never buy a "New,new, car!" they come with too many gremlins that have not had time to appear.

I do tiny miles now, so an Up, or something similar would probably do the job. 99.9% of the time it's only me in the car.

One thing I did find, is that some of the changes to the engine block version ''B' were indeed associated with improving the oil galleries/supply to the tensioner. But I'm still completely mystified as to why the majority of models with the CBZB engine don't mention the 0F3 198 158 B Kit, just the odd one really. It's just odd.
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