Breaking-in New engine

[Adam_013]

Have a peak at pads, how do you think they check them on a service. [emoji39]

You can barely see one pad through the wheels, seeing the other one is practically impossible without wheel removal or rummaging around on the floor.
It's excessive to say that should form part of regular maintenance.....come on....
In a service, the car is up on a lift and the wheels are taken off.
I get videos to prove it from my dealer.

Using an inspection mirror... Wheels are rarely removed on normal servicing, simply because you don't need to. It doesn't show you anything you can't already see... And we certainly don't do on trucks.

You can see the pads, discs, what else need you see?

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[Andy Beats]

Using an inspection mirror...

Of course, I always forget about the inspection mirror I have in the garage.....

[silverhairs]

With the Mrs Nissan Note, for a major service with a Nissan stealer, we got the Note back with a recommending that the rear brakes needed adjustment. When I picked this up with the service manager he said "that brake adjustment was extra and that's £90.00" It's not part of the service, they don't even take any of the wheels off. So your driving around with a years brake dust inside your drums. I took the Note to the local independent garage in the village ( I don't do dirty nails now) and they removed both drums, cleaned out and adjusted the brakes. £30.00. It makes you wonder what else they don't do on a major service.
Disc brakes do make it easier for them to just get a torch and see for wear, but with the 95 BHP Polo their drums.

[monkeyhanger]

Yes, VAG cover themselves against excessive oil consumption by quoting ridiculous figures as 'acceptable' in their manuals.
I tried to say 1800 miles per litre was execssive in mine, the dealer just said "within tolerances"
Unacceptable and I changed to BMW after that.
None of my BMWs used any oil between services at all.

Honda quote a litre of oil per 1000km as acceptable too - my mate has a thirsty Civic R-tyoe. Its not a VW thing, they all do it. Would not be surprised if BMW have same tolerance if you were unfortunate enough to have an oil guzzler.

[RUM4MO]

With the Mrs Nissan Note, for a major service with a Nissan stealer, we got the Note back with a recommending that the rear brakes needed adjustment. When I picked this up with the service manager he said "that brake adjustment was extra and that's £90.00" It's not part of the service, they don't even take any of the wheels off. So your driving around with a years brake dust inside your drums. I took the Note to the local independent garage in the village ( I don't do dirty nails now) and they removed both drums, cleaned out and adjusted the brakes. £30.00. It makes you wonder what else they don't do on a major service.
Disc brakes do make it easier for them to just get a torch and see for wear, but with the 95 BHP Polo their drums.

I think that you will find, well especially VW Group main dealerships, do some very important work during servicing, like sort of washing the car and wiping over the mats if rubber, if not vac'ng them, any other work being done is kept to a minimum to save time and money.

For anyone thinking that maybe every other service is a wheels off service in VW Group world, will get a shock as silverhairs says above - "any/all wheels off brake work is at extra cost". I have always done all my own brake work and when I handed my daughter's Ibiza in for a service just to keep the service record up to date as I thought she would trade it in after returning from working abroad - on collection all I got was "everything is okay but just a note to rebook it in for a brake service!" - now if I did not normally do all my own brake work, I'd be quite a bit more than just annoyed that they had that car in for a day and now want me to rebook it in for another day soon, using my contact details could have allowed them to get more money and still have that car ready by the end of that day, if I authorised them to carry out what they claimed was becoming urgent work - which as it turned out was not required as they were just working on that car's age/mileage without any knowledge of any work being carried out already by me.

[RUM4MO]

Honda quote a litre of oil per 1000km as acceptable too - my mate has a thirsty Civic R-tyoe. Its not a VW thing, they all do it. Would not be surprised if BMW have same tolerance if you were unfortunate enough to have an oil guzzler.

Either urban myth or truth, but it used to be said that Honda, especially on their "R-Type" cars, used an initial fill of mineral or semi synthetic or special oil to promote early wear or "running in" then changing it early for normal engine oil.

[Leif]

Oil changes are not black and white as you claim. There is a widespread belief among many knowledgeable people that the long service intervals are not so good for the engine, especially the first interval from new. That is why I do the 10,000 mile service plan. The oil is the simplest way to keep the engine healthy. Long service intervals are there because people demand them, especially fleets who don't want to bother servicing a car.

Yes, people demand them.
But technology allows it too.
There's no harm in you changing your oil more frequently, but no need either.
It's your money to do with as you like, but it's also unnecessary waste oil to be dealt with - which isn't good environmentally.

You say an awful lot of things with absolute certainty, often dismissing what many others here say, such as the above. It all seems very clearcut to you. What is the source of your apparently deep knowledge? Are you a mechanic? Or a car engine designer? Or are here just your layman’s opinions, in which case why should I take your views in preference to bodies such as the AA and mechanics and motoring journalists? I recall you telling me off for saying a given car was unreliable because you had one and it was faultless even though a survey showed it was one of the most unreliable. I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just wondering why you always write in such an authoritative and certain manner.

[Adam_013]

I always go by the oil is cheaper than metal.

IMO 20k intervals is far too long for me.

Our 11 & 13 Litre engines in trucks only have 100k intervals (give or take, dependent on work). And they hold between 35-45L of oil, not 4!

With Long life intervals on trucks we use bigger filters to cope the larger intervals, you'd think the same on car servicing. Well it'd be nice anyway.





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[stevereeves]

Yeah one could just drive the car 'normally' from new without thrashing it at first. And try to avoid short journeys of a mile or so, give the car a good run out from time to time 5+ miles or ideally 20 or more miles to get the engine thoroughly warmed up and also keep the battery charged. By checking tyres I meant obviously the treads & sidewalls for nails, etc + check actual tyre pressures. Brakes: make sure they work ok, inc handbrake, and keep an eye on the pads, remove the wheels if you really (really) want to (I don't) or use a torch and small mirror, also advisable to check the wheelbolts are fuly tightened. My Golf on delivery, all tyres were +/- 9 psi (thought it felt a bit wishy-washy) and the wheelbolts were finger-tight only . It's good to get into a habit of checking stuff, say at the weekend (fluids), and 1st of the month for brakes & tyres and whatever else I suggested (I can't sleep & it's late). It's suprising how many people don't do any basic maintenance at all not because they are unable to or don't know how, and there's no shame in that, but because they can't even be bothered to read the handbook. Of a car that is costing £10,000's....

[Andy Beats]

You say an awful lot of things with absolute certainty, often dismissing what many others here say, such as the above. It all seems very clearcut to you. What is the source of your apparently deep knowledge? Are you a mechanic? Or a car engine designer? Or are here just your layman’s opinions, in which case why should I take your views in preference to bodies such as the AA and mechanics and motoring journalists? I recall you telling me off for saying a given car was unreliable because you had one and it was faultless even though a survey showed it was one of the most unreliable. I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just wondering why you always write in such an authoritative and certain manner.

You're 'writing off' long life oil as a con though.
Where's your proof?
If VW are happy to promote long life oil and variable servicing, why would you go against that?
Don't you think that if VAG are happy for their cars to go onto variable servicing they are happy with the lubrication and protection the long life oil provides?
If their servicing recommendations resulted in engine failures, they'd only have themselves to blame....
Please, be my guest and change your oil more frequently, I really do not care one little bit.
But IMO it's wrong for people to suggest people who don't are 'neglecting' their cars, or people who change their oil more frequently are treating them 'better'.
Just stick to the servicing guidelines, no more, no less.

[Andy Beats]

You say an awful lot of things with absolute certainty, often dismissing what many others here say, such as the above. It all seems very clearcut to you. What is the source of your apparently deep knowledge? Are you a mechanic? Or a car engine designer? Or are here just your layman’s opinions, in which case why should I take your views in preference to bodies such as the AA and mechanics and motoring journalists? I recall you telling me off for saying a given car was unreliable because you had one and it was faultless even though a survey showed it was one of the most unreliable. I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just wondering why you always write in such an authoritative and certain manner.

You're 'writing off' long life oil as a con though.
Where's your proof?
If VW are happy to promote long life oil and variable servicing, why would you go against that?
Don't you think that if VAG are happy for their cars to go onto variable servicing they are happy with the lubrication and protection the long life oil provides?
If their servicing recommendations resulted in engine failures, they'd only have themselves to blame....
Please, be my guest and change your oil more frequently, it's your money.
But IMO it's wrong for people to suggest people who don't are 'neglecting' their cars, or people who change their oil more frequently are treating them 'better'.
Just stick to the servicing guidelines, no more, no less....I wouldn't have thought you'd find this so controversial?

[Andy Beats]

Honda quote a litre of oil per 1000km as acceptable too - my mate has a thirsty Civic R-tyoe. Its not a VW thing, they all do it. Would not be surprised if BMW have same tolerance if you were unfortunate enough to have an oil guzzler.

You could be right, maybe BMW do cover their backsides against warranty claims using the same horrible tactic.
Both of mine didn't use any, so didn't feel the need to check like I did with the Audi.

[Leif]

You say an awful lot of things with absolute certainty, often dismissing what many others here say, such as the above. It all seems very clearcut to you. What is the source of your apparently deep knowledge? Are you a mechanic? Or a car engine designer? Or are here just your layman’s opinions, in which case why should I take your views in preference to bodies such as the AA and mechanics and motoring journalists? I recall you telling me off for saying a given car was unreliable because you had one and it was faultless even though a survey showed it was one of the most unreliable. I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just wondering why you always write in such an authoritative and certain manner.

You're 'writing off' long life oil as a con though.

Where did I say that? I said that many knowledgeable people think shorter oil change intervals are better.

Where's your proof?

No proof, but see above.

If VW are happy to promote long life oil and variable servicing, why would you go against that?

They made claims about diesel engines which were not entirely accurate. In fact they were blatant lies. VAG wants to build good products that sell. In doing so they have to satisfy their own 3 year 60,000 mile warranty. Beyond that period we must for the most part rely on goodwill from VAG apart from the anti-corrosion warranty for the body work. So, long life servicing does not compromise the warranty. But is there any incentive for them to ensure that long life servicing is as good for the engine as 10,000 mile servicing over 10+ years? Nope. Generally if faults occur after 6 or more years, the courts conclude that the owner has had fair use of the car.

Don't you think that if VAG are happy for their cars to go onto variable servicing they are happy with the lubrication and protection the long life oil provides?
If their servicing recommendations resulted in engine failures, they'd only have themselves to blame....
Please, be my guest and change your oil more frequently, it's your money.
But IMO it's wrong for people to suggest people who don't are 'neglecting' their cars, or people who change their oil more frequently are treating them 'better'.
Just stick to the servicing guidelines, no more, no less....I wouldn't have thought you'd find this so controversial?

Right, in your opinion. Normally you write black and white statements as if they are fact from high. In fact you normally contradict pretty much everything that I write. Okay, so the engine oil claim is your opinion. Based on manufacturer's recommendations? Okay, no problem with that, but some of us do not blindly trust manufacturer's recommendations. As an example, in the past they would recommend changing cam belts after 100,000 miles or more. Now manufacturers have significantly reduced the mileage before replacement based presumably on experience compared to the cam belt makers claims. Generally I prefer to listen to motoring journalists and mechanics rather than manufacturers as they are more impartial, and could be said to be more 'on our side'.

[Andy Beats]

I said that many knowledgeable people think shorter oil change intervals are better.

And many equally knowledgable people, including the manufacturers themselves, think extended service intervals are perfectly fine.
So, as I said, you're free to spend your money ignoring that if you wish.
But there's no proof it's 'better' for your car to change more often.
Only testing and stripping two identical engines and examining them would prove it scientifically.
Which I suspect the manufacturers have probably done before sanctioning it.
I can't prove that, but I'd say the balance of evidence is that they will have done testing to show the extended service intervals are fine.

[monkeyhanger]

I said that many knowledgeable people think shorter oil change intervals are better.

And many equally knowledgable people, including the manufacturers themselves, think extended service intervals are perfectly fine.
So, as I said, you're free to spend your money ignoring that if you wish.
But there's no proof it's 'better' for your car to change more often.
Only testing and stripping two identical engines and examining them would prove it scientifically.
Which I suspect the manufacturers have probably done before sanctioning it.
I can't prove that, but I'd say the balance of evidence is that they will have done testing to show the extended service intervals are fine.

VW condone longer mile intervals for those that do at least 25 miles a day - variable servicing is aimed at people that do more than the average number of miles per year, so they're still seeing the car on a regular basis, and those doing high miles are likely to have far less engine wear per mile, and therefore no more wear debris for the filter to take care of than someone doing 8k miles a year. If doing 25k miles pa like Mike SEL, I would not be too bothered that I was on longlife variable servicing, with the car getting looked at every 9 months. I would not do it to try and only have a service every 2 years though.