Gearbox oil: G052171A2 vs G052527A2

[Le_Combattant]

Hey fox !
How are you doing ?

New topic concerning oil gearbox specification because I'm a little bit lost after reading a mount of topics with differents informations.

My gearbox on my Polo is a MQ200 02T (5 speed) from end of 2014.

In Jun of 2022 I performed a oil replacement of the geaborx in the hop to remove a whining noise when I was cruising on the 5th gear.
But it did nothing.

According to different sources, bearing of the 5th can fail or the two main bearing can fail. It's maybye the source of the whining.
So I have to open the little black case on the side of the gearbox and change the oil: no big deal.

But oil specification is a big deal.

There is two main code:

-G052171A2: old oil used by VW until the end 2013 and tend to be an 70w75 oil
-G052527A2: new oil used by VW (in 2014) called "high performance gear oil" and tend to be an 75w80

My car is from the end of 2014 so the oil I need is the last one: G052527A2
But it's damn expensive (60 euros/liter) and I'm not ready to pay over 150 euros for 2.1L of oil (yup, because you need three bottle).

On internet I found a decent oil at a decent price:

-CASTROL TRANSMAX MANUAL V 75W-80 which meet VW's specifications G052171 and G052527 (old and new).
This oil is 100% synthetic.

However, what I don't know, it's if the oil "made" by VW are synthetic, mineral of both.

On this question will depend my choice.

[iichel]

VW gearbox oils are full synthetic oils.

Can you not find a similiar spec oil but without the VW logo? That does have a tendency to make it more expensive. I've seen buttles for a fraction of the 60 euro's a litre for the G052527A2, i.e. Liqui Moly.

[RUM4MO]

Remember that the "A2" at the end of the spec/part number is just the size or type of the container that it is being sold in, normally 1.0litre.

I have always thought that while there might be 8 different manufacturer's specifications across a few car marques, Castrol and other oil preparers will just say that their product is okay to use, without ever being in the situation to have had their product tested to all these 8 manufacturer's specifications.

For a newish car, I'd always just spend the money it takes to get hold of the VW Group spec'd product, for an older car, I'd just buy Castrol etc and trust that it is good enough for the remaining life in that gearbox. I do understand that VW Group and most other car marques are not oil preparers, they just contact that job out to proper oil preparers, while hiding who these companies really are.

I once emailed Fuchs sales department in UK about their oils, they could only say that they do supply many other oil brands and that each one has a different "package" added into the oil depending on which area of the market they are being supplied into, ie by price.

[Le_Combattant]

VW gearbox oils are full synthetic oils.

Can you not find a similiar spec oil but without the VW logo? That does have a tendency to make it more expensive. I've seen buttles for a fraction of the 60 euro's a litre for the G052527A2, i.e. Liqui Moly.

It'st the main reason of this topic : synthetic or not.

Because I know old oil where mineral based for VAG by the past.
But I was not totally sure and VW keeps secrets for them.

[Le_Combattant]

Remember that the "A2" at the end of the spec/part number is just the size or type of the container that it is being sold in, normally 1.0litre.

I have always thought that while there might be 8 different manufacturer's specifications across a few car marques, Castrol and other oil preparers will just say that their product is okay to use, without ever being in the situation to have had their product tested to all these 8 manufacturer's specifications.

For a newish car, I'd always just spend the money it takes to get hold of the VW Group spec'd product, for an older car, I'd just buy Castrol etc and trust that it is good enough for the remaining life in that gearbox. I do understand that VW Group and most other car marques are not oil preparers, they just contact that job out to proper oil preparers, while hiding who these companies really are.

I once emailed Fuchs sales department in UK about their oils, they could only say that they do supply many other oil brands and that each one has a different "package" added into the oil depending on which area of the market they are being supplied into, ie by price.

Yup, end of the number indicate the size of container type.

To be honest, I don't know.
But for exemple on my oil cap of my engine is wrote "Castrol Oil". It's the factory cap and even on the board paper, there is a Castrol paper meaning VW and Castrol were partner.

So If I follow my logic, maybye original gearbox oil is coming from Castrol.
At least it's decent well know brand.

[Bepis]

I got mine from these guys:
https://www.seatmotorparts.co.uk/seat-s ... d-1-litre/

Says they ship internationally and equates to €45 a litre at today's rate but I'm not sure what duties and taxes may apply for shipping to France.

For aftermarket alternatives:
Liqui Moly quote both VW G 052 171 and G 052 527 in the spec for their Top Tec MTF 5300 70W-75
Fuchs again quote both for their TITAN SINTOFLUID FE SAE 75W Synthetic Manual Transmission Oil
CASTROL TRANSMAX MANUAL V 75W-80 might be your best bet but I don't think you can go wrong with any of these options

In my own research before I got my gearbox oil changed, I found various sources quoting that G052527A2 was 75W, or 70W-75 or 75W-80. In the end I just bit the bullet and got the VW stuff but it was £120 for 3L

Just FYI I found no difference in noise from my MQ350 but the shifter feel cold and hot was much improved.

[veteran]

You wrote:

"But it's damn expensive (60 euros/liter) and I'm not ready to pay over 150 euros for 2.1L of oil (yup, because you need three bottles)".

Are you quite sure of your facts there? My 2017 TSI 1.2 Polo 6C has essentially the same 02T gearbox as yours, and looking at VW's official specs for the 02T, the full capacity of the gearbox is given as exactly 2.0 litres. However, you're never going to be using this full amount unless you can somehow completely empty the gearbox of its existing oil, and I don't see that happening unless you can either lay the car on its side, you completely remove the gearbox from the vehicle, or you chance putting a long tube into the gearbox from the drainplug opening and suck out by that means every last millilitre with a pump of some sort. That's because the gearbox drainplug is situated some way up the gearbox's casing, not right at the bottom. Indeed, you should have noticed that if, as you say, you not long ago 'replaced' the gearbox oil on your 6C. So, unless you re-fill from dry, I think you'll end up using less than a litre of new oil.

When I changed my gearbox oil, a few years ago now, I did at one stage contemplate temporarily removing a rather ill-defined sealed plate on the bottom of the gearbox, on the assumption that that would then enable all of the gearbox's oil to drain out, but I couldn't determine beforehand whether that would have really been the case. (With remnants of gearoil still collecting around the hole left by the plate's temporary removal, it would probably have been a nightmare to properly re-seal it again. So I left well alone and just emptied as far as the built-in drainplug permitted).

As for the actual replacement oil itself, in the end I went along to my local VW dealer and bought a 1-litre bottle (I think) of the VW recommended oil (most likely the G052527A2 you've quoted). It pained me to do so, as at the time it cost me about £32 (32 British Pounds). But I slept more easily after using it, knowing that I'd taken no risks with an alternative oil. Using the drainplug on the gearbox to remove as much of the original oil as was do-able, I don't recall needing more than that 1 litre. (I'll check this against notes I made at the time and also look in my garage for that original bottle, as I think I've kept what was left over). It strikes me that if the price of a litre bottle of G052527 from VW in France is currently 60 euros, that's probably about what I'd anticipate, given inflation that's taken place since I did mine five years ago and also the big hikes in the prices of all oil products due to the Putin factor. In the end, you might, like me, simply have to take a deep gulp and accept that that's the sort of price you'll have to pay.

I think at one stage I wondered whether to buy a gearbox oil from Febi (Febi Bilstein) instead, as their website seemed to indicate that they sold VW-spec'd gearoil for my particular Polo at around half the price that my local VW dealer was asking. You can probably still get that Febi-badged oil, and other Febi products, via Amazon.

Edit: I've since investigated both Febi's current website and Amazon's. According to a note I made five years ago, the relevant Febi product was gearbox oil 21829, but looking at it now I think that that was, and still is, the VW version of oil other than the advanced one. So, unfortunately it's of no relevance here. That's probably why, at that time, I went for the VW-badged stuff I bought direct from my VW dealer.

[Le_Combattant]

You wrote:

"But it's damn expensive (60 euros/liter) and I'm not ready to pay over 150 euros for 2.1L of oil (yup, because you need three bottles)".

Are you quite sure of your facts there? My 2017 TSI 1.2 Polo 6C has essentially the same 02T gearbox as yours, and looking at VW's official specs for the 02T, the full capacity of the gearbox is given as exactly 2.0 litres. However, you're never going to be using this full amount unless you can somehow completely empty the gearbox of its existing oil, and I don't see that happening unless you can either lay the car on its side, you completely remove the gearbox from the vehicle, or you chance putting a long tube into the gearbox from the drainplug opening and suck out by that means every last millilitre with a pump of some sort. That's because the gearbox drainplug is situated some way up the gearbox's casing, not right at the bottom. Indeed, you should have noticed that if, as you say, you not long ago 'replaced' the gearbox oil on your 6C. So, unless you re-fill from dry, I think you'll end up using less than a litre of new oil.

When I changed my gearbox oil, a few years ago now, I did at one stage contemplate temporarily removing a rather ill-defined sealed plate on the bottom of the gearbox, on the assumption that that would then enable all of the gearbox's oil to drain out, but I couldn't determine beforehand whether that would have really been the case. (With remnants of gearoil still collecting around the hole left by the plate's temporary removal, it would probably have been a nightmare to properly re-seal it again. So I left well alone and just emptied as far as the built-in drainplug permitted).

As for the actual replacement oil itself, in the end I went along to my local VW dealer and bought a 1-litre bottle (I think) of the VW recommended oil (most likely the G052527A2 you've quoted). It pained me to do so, as at the time it cost me about £32 (32 British Pounds). But I slept more easily after using it, knowing that I'd taken no risks with an alternative oil. Using the drainplug on the gearbox to remove as much of the original oil as was do-able, I don't recall needing more than that 1 litre. (I'll check this against notes I made at the time and also look in my garage for that original bottle, as I think I've kept what was left over). It strikes me that if the price of a litre bottle of G052527 from VW in France is currently 60 euros, that's probably about what I'd anticipate, given inflation that's taken place since I did mine five years ago and also the big hikes in the prices of all oil products due to the Putin factor. In the end, you might, like me, simply have to take a deep gulp and accept that that's the sort of price you'll have to pay.

I think at one stage I wondered whether to buy a gearbox oil from Febi (Febi Bilstein) instead, as their website seemed to indicate that they sold VW-spec'd gearoil for my particular Polo at around half the price that my local VW dealer was asking. You can probably still get that Febi-badged oil, and other Febi products, via Amazon.

Edit: I've since investigated both Febi's current website and Amazon's. According to a note I made five years ago, the relevant Febi product was gearbox oil 21829, but looking at it now I think that that was, and still is, the VW version of oil other than the advanced one. So, unfortunately it's of no relevance here. That's probably why, at that time, I went for the VW-badged stuff I bought direct from my VW dealer.

In VW official workshop manual it's wrote "Oil capacity: 2.1L".

At leat, the drain plug is well located, but the design inside the gearbox does not allow to remove all oil because on the middle is the magnet to capt all metalics parts. So it's like there is two "chamber" inside the gearbox.
To remove the maximum quantity, it's possible to unscrew one of the three screw at the bottom to creat a open and drain the rest of the oil.

When I performed the oil replacement, I managed to remove 1.8 maybye 1.9 liter.

Currently, I have Febi in my gearbox but I don't know why (and don't ask me why) I don't trust in this brand. Ok oil is here now since 6 months, but I'm gonna change for a better one from Castrol.

Castrol is a Oil company, not Febi.

That's why I think I will order some bottle of the CASTROL TRANSMAX MANUAL V 75W80.

[veteran]

"To remove the maximum quantity, it's possible to unscrew one of the three screw at the bottom to creat a open and drain the rest of the oil".

Just out of interest, to which three screws are you referring? (Can you show a picture of them?).

[Le_Combattant]

The big screw behind the little cover with two screws side to side

[veteran]

Thanks. Here's my gearbox, viewed from a different angle (from my nearside, bearing in mind that mine's a righthand-drive vehicle), and I've annotated with arrows what I now presume to be the three screws, having viewed your pic and read your comment. Have I understood correctly?

When doing the full drain, did you have to just loosen all three of those screws, or did you have to completely remove the screws? Indeed, did you have to take that small rectangular cover off?

I'm asking about this because, on my vehicle, for a long time I've been trying to track down an annoying oil leak that has been manifesting itself vaguely in that area of the gearbox casing. At one point I contemplated undoing these screws (bolts) and slightly repositioning the rectangular cover. I didn't go ahead because (a) the screws each had what looked like hardened sealant underneath their heads, and (b) I suspected gearoil might pour out. I thought I might then also have some trouble re-sealing the screws.

gearbox_underside.jpg (1.14 MiB) Viewed 1706 times

[Le_Combattant]

Thanks. Here's my gearbox, viewed from a different angle (from my nearside, bearing in mind that mine's a righthand-drive vehicle), and I've annotated with arrows what I now presume to be the three screws, having viewed your pic and read your comment. Have I understood correctly?

When doing the full drain, did you have to just loosen all three of those screws, or did you have to completely remove the screws? Indeed, did you have to take that small rectangular cover off?

I'm asking about this because, on my vehicle, for a long time I've been trying to track down an annoying oil leak that has been manifesting itself vaguely in that area of the gearbox casing. At one point I contemplated undoing these screws (bolts) and slightly repositioning the rectangular cover. I didn't go ahead because (a) the screws each had what looked like hardened sealant underneath their heads, and (b) I suspected gearoil might pour out. I thought I might then also have some trouble re-sealing the screws.


gearbox_underside.jpg

You are right on your picture.

I tried to remove the little cap on the first oil servicing but with no luck.
By removing the screw just behind, I catch a little quantity of oil, but I was after the main draining. So I can't confirm.

I you have torque wrench, check is they are well torqued.
I have a small leak, but it's barely noticable on the drain plug.

[veteran]

It was about 4 - 5 years ago when I was doing that. I remember that I checked with my torque wrench and the appropriate bit that none of the bolts/screws in that concentrated area were loose. I couldn't check, however, for a specific torque setting because I couldn't find any of them quoted for these particular bolts in my otherwise very comprehensive VW workshop manual, most likely because VW never expects anyone other than themselves or an approved VW gearbox specialist to ever meddle with the gearbox. But from what I could see anyway, these bolts were 'locked' in place by some sort of hardened sealant, presumably added when the gearbox was assembled in the factory (in my case, in Spain). The same hardened sealant had also been used on the rim of the rectangular cover. Clearly, right there you need a very good and virtually permanent seal, as otherwise you could continually lose oil out of the gearbox. This explains why neither you nor I were able to remove the cover. I'm glad I didn't, anyway, because had I done so I'd have had an almost impossible job then of adequately resealing it.

The designed-in drainplug, further up the casing and which is just visible in my pic, has a tapered thread and should, in theory, not allow any gearoil to leak from that orifice - at least, if the plug's thread and the mating thread in the casing were properly formed at manufacture and the plug was originally torqued to the correct value. But it might be that, in my case, there was something wrong with one or other of the threads. At the time, I did remove the drainplug several times to check that there was no cross-threading taking place, for example, and there didn't appear to be. I torqued it to the recommended value, plus a tad more but left it at that because I didn't want to risk cracking the casing. Surprisingly, most of the drainplug's threads still show on the outside, so the drainplug doesn't screw in very far at all, at least it doesn't on mine. Like on yours, I do get some seepage from that drainplug, despite all my efforts to prevent it. However, the amount of oil that annually ends up dripping on to my Polo's plastic undercover suggests that maybe the leaked oil is coming from somewhere different. The trouble is that if it is coming from that drainplug, or indeed anywhere else further up the gearbox casing, it no matter what eventually ends up as collective drips on the very bottom edges of the gearbox casing, ie, right by that rectangular cover. So, you can never really tell where it's coming from.

[Le_Combattant]

The torque for the 6 pans drain and filling plug is 30Nm.

On the last oil servicing of my car I noted small amount of oil on the plastic cover. Not a lot, but I could clearly see
the greasy area.

Maybye by changing the draining plug by a new one could resolve your issue.

Now concerning the oil, I'm still hesitating between two product

-CASTROL TRANSMAX MANUAL V 75W80
and
-FUCHS TITAN SINTOFLUID FE 75W

Both meets both specs (old and one) but Castrol is 75W80 (against 75W for Fuchs) and Castrol is APIGL4 + (Fuchs is APIGL 4).

[amer6R]

maybe a bit of thread sealant ?