If I was you Tahrey, I'd just stick it on eBay and be rid of it.
From what I've seen, you're going to spend lots of money on it to sell it, and when you sell it, you might just break even, or make a loss.
Plus, with taking it all apart there's the hassle of doing it and the worry of "what if I haven't done something right, and it blows up as soon as I sell it?
I don't want to break your heart, as you obviously love this car, but is it really worth it?
Tom
hmmmm will it all end in tears and pain?
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Tahrey1043
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maybe not so much in love any more, but it'd be a total p*sser to see an otherwise fair-to-good machine almost inevitably end up going for scrap after august for want of one or two small parts (rings, breather) renewing... not too bothered if i do make any money on it any more - as i've spent enough to keep it running over the last couple years that £200 is barely here vs there --- and, like how much will it make on ebay anyway? bugger all, we've seen enough mk3s go for peanuts that way!
guess i really should just pull my thumb out and research a little more solidly what it will entail. If it's "just" a case of drain oil, drain coolant, depressurise fuel system, remove airbox, undo some bolts, remove the rocker cover and sump, undo some more bolts, remove a couple belts, take the head off, undo whatever holds the pistons to the crank and withdraw them, use the special tool to replace the rings (cant be as bad as the drum brakes - can it?), oil it up, knock back in, replace breather, then bolt everything back together, replace the belts & gaskets, refill with coolant and clean oil and repressurise the fuel lines, why, shouldnt be too difficult, and only take me about a year and a half!
guess i really should just pull my thumb out and research a little more solidly what it will entail. If it's "just" a case of drain oil, drain coolant, depressurise fuel system, remove airbox, undo some bolts, remove the rocker cover and sump, undo some more bolts, remove a couple belts, take the head off, undo whatever holds the pistons to the crank and withdraw them, use the special tool to replace the rings (cant be as bad as the drum brakes - can it?), oil it up, knock back in, replace breather, then bolt everything back together, replace the belts & gaskets, refill with coolant and clean oil and repressurise the fuel lines, why, shouldnt be too difficult, and only take me about a year and a half!
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GroovyCarrot
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The way I see it, the car's worth naff all at the moment, you have alternative means of transport with your astra so it doesn't really matter if it all goes wrong, and everyone has to start somewhere.. what better place to start than a car that's practically disposable and isn't required for every day transport?
To go through your list:
Con rod bearing set: big end bearings. Definately should do these if you're taking the pistons out, they're very easy to change
Main bearing set: Not vital, probably not worth the hassle if you just want to fix your compression and oil loss issues.
Oil pump: Don't need to remove if you're not taking the crank out, don't worry about it
Oil: Well, it's what I use
Works alright, I'm sure there are many advantages in more expensive oil, but it's drinking the stuff by the gallon at the moment so it's hardly worth it. Should be fine for just running in the engine anyway
Timing belt: If you have a spare one, fit it. You'll have to remove the old one anyway so you might as well slap the new one on while you're at it.
Rachet and t-bar: Just standard socket set really.. rachet as in the clicky thing that you clip sockets onto to do nuts up with, t-bar as in the same things but without the rachet mechanism, better for cracking very tight nuts.
Sockets: You'll definately need 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 34mm sockets, probably a couple more that I haven't thought of. Again it's just a standard socket set really..
Driveshafts: Have to remove them from the gearbox if you're swapping the engine out, not if you're just doing the piston rings.
Head bolts: Yep.
Allen sockets: Uh.. not sure. Most common one I used was marked '6', but I think that was some kind of arbitrary marking, certainly wasn't 6mm anyway..
Piston ring compressor: Shouldn't be much to post, couple of quid maybe.
1/4" sockets: 8, 10, 13mm. Definately 10mm. Very useful.
Valve spring compressor: Well, your choice if you want to rebuild the head or not. I didn't.. but I will at some point. Maybe leave it until you're confident with the rest of the engine..
Really I would say to go for it, even if it's just for the experience and interest as to how it all works.. it's a great learning curve to have an engine apart on the bench, and even better when the car isn't your main method of transport... I know it doesn't make sense logically and financially, but I really feel I learnt a lot from having mine apart, even if I didn't really achieve anything in the long run.
To go through your list:
Con rod bearing set: big end bearings. Definately should do these if you're taking the pistons out, they're very easy to change
Main bearing set: Not vital, probably not worth the hassle if you just want to fix your compression and oil loss issues.
Oil pump: Don't need to remove if you're not taking the crank out, don't worry about it
Oil: Well, it's what I use
Works alright, I'm sure there are many advantages in more expensive oil, but it's drinking the stuff by the gallon at the moment so it's hardly worth it. Should be fine for just running in the engine anywayTiming belt: If you have a spare one, fit it. You'll have to remove the old one anyway so you might as well slap the new one on while you're at it.
Rachet and t-bar: Just standard socket set really.. rachet as in the clicky thing that you clip sockets onto to do nuts up with, t-bar as in the same things but without the rachet mechanism, better for cracking very tight nuts.
Sockets: You'll definately need 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 34mm sockets, probably a couple more that I haven't thought of. Again it's just a standard socket set really..
Driveshafts: Have to remove them from the gearbox if you're swapping the engine out, not if you're just doing the piston rings.
Head bolts: Yep.
Allen sockets: Uh.. not sure. Most common one I used was marked '6', but I think that was some kind of arbitrary marking, certainly wasn't 6mm anyway..
Piston ring compressor: Shouldn't be much to post, couple of quid maybe.
1/4" sockets: 8, 10, 13mm. Definately 10mm. Very useful.
Valve spring compressor: Well, your choice if you want to rebuild the head or not. I didn't.. but I will at some point. Maybe leave it until you're confident with the rest of the engine..
Really I would say to go for it, even if it's just for the experience and interest as to how it all works.. it's a great learning curve to have an engine apart on the bench, and even better when the car isn't your main method of transport... I know it doesn't make sense logically and financially, but I really feel I learnt a lot from having mine apart, even if I didn't really achieve anything in the long run.
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ibiza jamie
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i found i had to take off the down pipe and the driveshaft to get at the sump when i did my g40,
i dunno if its the same but if so you gotta need to get manifold-downpipe gasket and more than likely studs and nuts.
you will also need some form of sealant for the sump, coz sure as well that gasket aint sealing again.
i think i agree with those that have said leave it,you obviously dont have much knowledge in this area. you have to be honest with yourself and realise its not really worth anything, as much as you love it.
sorry just my 2p
j
i dunno if its the same but if so you gotta need to get manifold-downpipe gasket and more than likely studs and nuts.
you will also need some form of sealant for the sump, coz sure as well that gasket aint sealing again.
i think i agree with those that have said leave it,you obviously dont have much knowledge in this area. you have to be honest with yourself and realise its not really worth anything, as much as you love it.
sorry just my 2p
j
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GroovyCarrot
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ibiza jamie
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Tahrey1043
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hmmm i'm surprised at being told it's too much cash/effort, with all the people doing god knows what expensive things to other mk3s (and 1s thru 4s) on here in the name of minor cosmetic and performance tweaks (the best ones having thousands put into them) - whats a hundred quid or so to keep one on the road? thats bearly the cost of a decat and cheap induction kit. that plus a chip, slick-50 and a zymol gift set if it goes wrong. 
far below the cost + increased insurance of a set of decent alloys
and hell, i've had £350 repair bills from the garage itself before. i'd probably still be getting them occasionally for other parts had i not thrashed it / switched cars. i could even go and have it professionally done and probably spend as much.
i'd better turn off of that particular thought road before i get any deeper into denial and justification i think!
know in real terms its honestly not worth it for one car, but again... it's one p!ssing little £8 part! (yes, and the rest, i know i know) and literally all that needs to be done, outside of the actual ring-fitting, is undoing & refitting/torquing some bolts, pulling off/refitting a belt, and scraping off/renewing the seals(???)
if it all goes wrong, well... spares and repairs. the amount of money lost on it wont exactly be enormous. i've just gone and, on the spur of the moment, bought a £60 DVD cabinet from ikea for heaven's sake.... (and built it)
eh anyway
had a bit of a "moment" today where i both thought i might be able to get rid of it, and had found someone with a more f***ed up car --- my brother. call came in from one of his mates' houses... his slightly battered J-reg 'tray had conked out from suspected lack of petrol about a quarter mile from there, even though he was only a few miles into his usual 30 or so after the light had come on, and it smelt a bit funny.
trudged off with a couple spare cans to give him a hand, got a gallon into it and engine started.... the smell came back... looked under it on a whim - jumped up and ordered him to kill the power and remove the key immediately. fluid p!ssing out all over the place!! (stopped when he killed it). left a nice big smelly puddle under the engine block, unmistakably premium unleaded (well, at least that solves the rough cold starting and "knackered auto choke" issues its had recently...?). Left him at the side of the road waiting for the AA to turn up after seeing him successfully make the call - and offering him the dub for 100 nicker.
unfortunately the AA b*stard just happened to have an early 90s vauxhall fuel hose on him and it only took, what, two and a half hours to fix... pity i probably can't get them to roadside-repair the polo! (after all, they only charge for the parts, not labour or tools)
....perhaps i'm still thinking too much like a lego-loving, own-computer-building geek that im not quite so much of any more. And there's that ugly "engine on the bench" phrase again. What bench?
far below the cost + increased insurance of a set of decent alloys
and hell, i've had £350 repair bills from the garage itself before. i'd probably still be getting them occasionally for other parts had i not thrashed it / switched cars. i could even go and have it professionally done and probably spend as much.
i'd better turn off of that particular thought road before i get any deeper into denial and justification i think!
know in real terms its honestly not worth it for one car, but again... it's one p!ssing little £8 part! (yes, and the rest, i know i know) and literally all that needs to be done, outside of the actual ring-fitting, is undoing & refitting/torquing some bolts, pulling off/refitting a belt, and scraping off/renewing the seals(???)
if it all goes wrong, well... spares and repairs. the amount of money lost on it wont exactly be enormous. i've just gone and, on the spur of the moment, bought a £60 DVD cabinet from ikea for heaven's sake.... (and built it)
eh anyway
had a bit of a "moment" today where i both thought i might be able to get rid of it, and had found someone with a more f***ed up car --- my brother. call came in from one of his mates' houses... his slightly battered J-reg 'tray had conked out from suspected lack of petrol about a quarter mile from there, even though he was only a few miles into his usual 30 or so after the light had come on, and it smelt a bit funny.
trudged off with a couple spare cans to give him a hand, got a gallon into it and engine started.... the smell came back... looked under it on a whim - jumped up and ordered him to kill the power and remove the key immediately. fluid p!ssing out all over the place!! (stopped when he killed it). left a nice big smelly puddle under the engine block, unmistakably premium unleaded (well, at least that solves the rough cold starting and "knackered auto choke" issues its had recently...?). Left him at the side of the road waiting for the AA to turn up after seeing him successfully make the call - and offering him the dub for 100 nicker.
unfortunately the AA b*stard just happened to have an early 90s vauxhall fuel hose on him and it only took, what, two and a half hours to fix... pity i probably can't get them to roadside-repair the polo! (after all, they only charge for the parts, not labour or tools)
....perhaps i'm still thinking too much like a lego-loving, own-computer-building geek that im not quite so much of any more. And there's that ugly "engine on the bench" phrase again. What bench?
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Tahrey1043
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lol i think i'd be more comfortable doing it with the astra, as apparently it's a bloody easy engine to work on (looks it, too) .... GM derived, so its designed in a way that a redneck with a mallet can fix it out in the alabama swamps
except I haven't figured out how to do anything but check / topup the oil and refill the washer fluid yet. i'm still trying to get past removing the air filter cover, whose clips seem to be welded shut. (ok, i did the leads as well, but how difficult is that? other than an SPi / carb polo where the airbox gets in the way, it counts as a zero-spanner job)
but, still chuckling on the inside at the sight of all that petrol spewing out of bro's engine (42k miles, by the way, even though it's a J plate). AA guy said it should have been done ages ago. I don't think he's ever done any kind of maintenance on it other than what the MOT place demands. Probably doesn't top the oil up until the light comes on, and then has to look up what that one means in the manual.... it can't be long for the world! muhahaha
........ hmmm
anyways
if it was a "big" thing that was making it hard to sell, e.g. needing frame welding or a lot of new panels/parts etc, i'd be happy to strip it and scrap it - but it aint.... hm.
so ste - deadly honest rating - difficulty of the task ahead to an overhaul n00b?
except I haven't figured out how to do anything but check / topup the oil and refill the washer fluid yet. i'm still trying to get past removing the air filter cover, whose clips seem to be welded shut. (ok, i did the leads as well, but how difficult is that? other than an SPi / carb polo where the airbox gets in the way, it counts as a zero-spanner job)
but, still chuckling on the inside at the sight of all that petrol spewing out of bro's engine (42k miles, by the way, even though it's a J plate). AA guy said it should have been done ages ago. I don't think he's ever done any kind of maintenance on it other than what the MOT place demands. Probably doesn't top the oil up until the light comes on, and then has to look up what that one means in the manual....
it can't be long for the world! muhahaha........ hmmm
anyways
if it was a "big" thing that was making it hard to sell, e.g. needing frame welding or a lot of new panels/parts etc, i'd be happy to strip it and scrap it - but it aint.... hm.
so ste - deadly honest rating - difficulty of the task ahead to an overhaul n00b?
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ste mk1lx
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if you have the Haynes, a bit of patiance and the time, theres no reason at all why you can't do it just be methodical and do everything by the book.If you run into problems some one on here will help you out.If you've got the guts to do it to the Astra (I wouldn't touch a newish car)then you've got to do it to Poppy, she deserves it
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Tahrey1043
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Thing with the Astra is that it was the last of the Mk3 line, flog-em-off special edition, you know. The engine, much like the Polo ones were in the first mk4s (or the ones ford still use in the Ka), is a bit of a dinosaur - a modernised, fuel injected dinosaur, but all the same, if twere much simpler and stone age it'd be mounted longitudinally I could probably replace the head gasket on that in about twenty minutes including the second stage bolt tightening.
I had a wierd experience last night with both my aunt and uncle staring me down and reccommending i put the car either in the local castle brom industrial estate car auctions (problem is getting it there...), or the bargain pages for fifty quid. Think I might give it a little go and if it doesn't work, take their reccommendation...
For starters, i need to find some pipe with which to jerry-rig a breaker bar along with the torque wrench.
I could probably replace the head gasket on that in about twenty minutes including the second stage bolt tightening.I had a wierd experience last night with both my aunt and uncle staring me down and reccommending i put the car either in the local castle brom industrial estate car auctions (problem is getting it there...), or the bargain pages for fifty quid. Think I might give it a little go and if it doesn't work, take their reccommendation...
For starters, i need to find some pipe with which to jerry-rig a breaker bar along with the torque wrench.
Last edited by Tahrey1043 on Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tahrey1043
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EDIT
OK, Mr Carrot, I'm going to have to ask a favour of you. Do you still have those pistons / rings around, as well as the compressor?
reason i ask is.....
GSF no longer sell them!!!
I bit the bullet, went out and bought everything else i need (they were even "kind" enough to give me - and charge for - two boxes of gloves, but given the particular situation i couldnt be arsed arguing over a matter of three quid plus VAT) ...... only for them to tell me that they no longer carry ANY piston rings when i got to that part of the list!
Naturally I'll pay for the bits and any postage..
I think I might be able to do it if i just tackle one thing at a time. I can just leave the car parked up on the roadside with various parts of the engine taken out without too much hassle after all.
old whiney post:
hmmmmmmmmmm the immediate parts (budgeting down to the sump washer and gloves are going to cost the wrong side of £90, and the look of the procedure in haynes has me crapping myself. It covers about five chapters in total.
got to.....................
sort out all the sockets and junk
find somewhere to park it
remove the bonnet (!) (REMOVE not open - guess i need to find a tarp as well?)
depressurise fuel system
remove air box and ignition leads
disconnect battery
disconnect throttle cable, electrics, vacuum and fuel lines from throttle body
remove throttle body
drain oil, remove filter
drain coolant...... pray that the thermostat doesn't fall out
take coolant hoses off all parts of the head
remove what's left of the breather hoses
take off the cambelt cover
discover how to slacken and remove the auxilary drive belt (alternator belt)
set engine to TDC with a wrench
discover how to remove inner cambelt cover, slacken and remove cambelt
remove cambelt sprocket (?!?! is this neccessary?)
take off cam cover and oil baffle - looks like the easiest part
.......and i haven't even got the head off at this stage. There's that to deal with, and removing the sump and pistons which I can't even properly get my head round, and likely wont until i'm actually looking at it, and then the rebuild - and running-in!
I can easily afford it, and might give it a go, but... i dont know if i can do it all right. At all. I'm no mechanic. I can build computers up out of nothing and put an exquisitely tuned operating system on, but that's with years of experience. This feels like I'm attempting to do that with nothing but a book and the internet to guide me.
Seriously, does anyone want this car. You can have it. Free. No cost. Nada. Turn up and I'll give you the V5, so long as you're not going to go scrap it immediately (hell, I could do THAT myself)
Facing facts, I'm unlikely to get more than £150 for it on the open market even with the engine repaired. Might even be able to get that as-is, if i'm evil about it. But between taking an *up-to* £150 car and "throwing it away", and spending potentially more than £100 - perhaps far more - and a whole lot of time and sweat to probably not get it fixed anyway, the choice is looking ever more bleak.
Not to mention the time factor. I've got exams coming up, ones that are of a level comparable to the first year of a degree, and by the time I'm through them, it'll be the middle of May - the MOT runs out Aug 1st, the Tax Aug 31st.
It runs fine, it's repairable (i'm at the level of precautionary repair so far), the rest of it is in good nick. I'm in north birmingham suburbs, not very far at all from either M6, M42, M5 and M6 toll.
all the same i may get the immediately required bits from GSF and ask what their returns policy is like....
OK, Mr Carrot, I'm going to have to ask a favour of you. Do you still have those pistons / rings around, as well as the compressor?
reason i ask is.....
GSF no longer sell them!!!
I bit the bullet, went out and bought everything else i need (they were even "kind" enough to give me - and charge for - two boxes of gloves, but given the particular situation i couldnt be arsed arguing over a matter of three quid plus VAT) ...... only for them to tell me that they no longer carry ANY piston rings when i got to that part of the list!
Naturally I'll pay for the bits and any postage..
I think I might be able to do it if i just tackle one thing at a time. I can just leave the car parked up on the roadside with various parts of the engine taken out without too much hassle after all.
old whiney post:
hmmmmmmmmmm the immediate parts (budgeting down to the sump washer and gloves
are going to cost the wrong side of £90, and the look of the procedure in haynes has me crapping myself. It covers about five chapters in total.got to.....................
sort out all the sockets and junk
find somewhere to park it
remove the bonnet (!) (REMOVE not open - guess i need to find a tarp as well?)
depressurise fuel system
remove air box and ignition leads
disconnect battery
disconnect throttle cable, electrics, vacuum and fuel lines from throttle body
remove throttle body
drain oil, remove filter
drain coolant...... pray that the thermostat doesn't fall out
take coolant hoses off all parts of the head
remove what's left of the breather hoses
take off the cambelt cover
discover how to slacken and remove the auxilary drive belt (alternator belt)
set engine to TDC with a wrench
discover how to remove inner cambelt cover, slacken and remove cambelt
remove cambelt sprocket (?!?! is this neccessary?)
take off cam cover and oil baffle - looks like the easiest part
.......and i haven't even got the head off at this stage. There's that to deal with, and removing the sump and pistons which I can't even properly get my head round, and likely wont until i'm actually looking at it, and then the rebuild - and running-in!
I can easily afford it, and might give it a go, but... i dont know if i can do it all right. At all. I'm no mechanic. I can build computers up out of nothing and put an exquisitely tuned operating system on, but that's with years of experience. This feels like I'm attempting to do that with nothing but a book and the internet to guide me.
Seriously, does anyone want this car. You can have it. Free. No cost. Nada. Turn up and I'll give you the V5, so long as you're not going to go scrap it immediately (hell, I could do THAT myself)
Facing facts, I'm unlikely to get more than £150 for it on the open market even with the engine repaired. Might even be able to get that as-is, if i'm evil about it. But between taking an *up-to* £150 car and "throwing it away", and spending potentially more than £100 - perhaps far more - and a whole lot of time and sweat to probably not get it fixed anyway, the choice is looking ever more bleak.
Not to mention the time factor. I've got exams coming up, ones that are of a level comparable to the first year of a degree, and by the time I'm through them, it'll be the middle of May - the MOT runs out Aug 1st, the Tax Aug 31st.
It runs fine, it's repairable (i'm at the level of precautionary repair so far), the rest of it is in good nick. I'm in north birmingham suburbs, not very far at all from either M6, M42, M5 and M6 toll.
all the same i may get the immediately required bits from GSF and ask what their returns policy is like....
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GroovyCarrot
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Ah crap... have you tried using their online ordering service? They probably still have a couple of sets lying around at GSF HQ 
I do still have the pistons and rings, you're welcome to them if you want. One thing I'd ask in return though is for your old pistons, as I'd like to do the rings in mine in the summer, but I'd like to just be able to shove new pistons and rings in in one go so I've still got the old set of rings in one piece in case I cock up like I did last time. PM your address and I'll get some postage sorted out.
I do still have the pistons and rings, you're welcome to them if you want. One thing I'd ask in return though is for your old pistons, as I'd like to do the rings in mine in the summer, but I'd like to just be able to shove new pistons and rings in in one go so I've still got the old set of rings in one piece in case I cock up like I did last time. PM your address and I'll get some postage sorted out.
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GroovyCarrot
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Exactly what I did. I may not have got it entirely right.. but I did manage to strip everything down and put it back again in a way that seems to work alright, and that was just following haynes and advice from people here. Let's face it, mechanical work for the most part is just a case of knowing how to turn a spanner the right way, it's knowing which order to put the nuts and bolts in that's the problem, and that's what haynes is for anyway.Tahrey1043 wrote:This feels like I'm attempting to do that with nothing but a book and the internet to guide me.
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Tahrey1043
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well, same way i went about sorting the gearbox oil and the coolant i guess....... but also, to play devils advocate, those sodding drum brakes!
at least this time i wont be stranded needing to be somewhere - a fear i had about five minutes ago.... i just changed the air filter in the astra.
sixty second job on the polo, right? including unlocking the door, opening/closing the bonnet and taking the new filter out of the wrapping. Looks similar on the vaux. Wrong. Had to root out a suitable screwdriver to get the clips off, and had a merry, painful, exhausting game getting the buggers back on. and yet again, ive gotta go to work now.
no problem with sending you the old bits, if you're daft enough to want 'em ... suppose i could harangue GSF central office, but apparently they're a "deleted line". whether that means they sold off the last item and never restocked, or have chucked all the old ones in a bin, or what...?!
bit funny them doing that though, i wonder why they've taken such a step? it smells sinister.
at least this time i wont be stranded needing to be somewhere - a fear i had about five minutes ago.... i just changed the air filter in the astra.
sixty second job on the polo, right? including unlocking the door, opening/closing the bonnet and taking the new filter out of the wrapping. Looks similar on the vaux. Wrong. Had to root out a suitable screwdriver to get the clips off, and had a merry, painful, exhausting game getting the buggers back on. and yet again, ive gotta go to work now.
no problem with sending you the old bits, if you're daft enough to want 'em
... suppose i could harangue GSF central office, but apparently they're a "deleted line". whether that means they sold off the last item and never restocked, or have chucked all the old ones in a bin, or what...?!bit funny them doing that though, i wonder why they've taken such a step? it smells sinister.