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So when will the OP consider that it is time to back down, all down to creating a "bad" thread?

Andy Beats wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:04 am

Leif wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:18 am As an aside, I recently had a lift in a colleague's car. I was terrified. I've never been so frightened before, I was clutching the sides of the seat, and on the verge of screaming. He has a high end BMW and he was driving too fast and with no margin or error.

In your opinion.
Fact is people have different driving skill levels.
He might be a t**t, then again he might be perfectly in control and your brain just isn't used to the speed.
I dare say I'd have been crapping it sitting next to Colin McRae, doesn't mean he's out of control.
My mother thinks I drive like a nutter even when I think I'm taking it easy, we just all have different levels of comfort when it comes to speed.

Complete bull. If you scare someone, or they think you drive like a nutter, it's quite likely you are not safe.

Colin McRae is a rally driver. He is highly skilled, and drives on rally routes, approved for rallies, with other people expecting him to drive as per a rally. If he drives like a rally driver on public roads, then he is a danger to other road users and should be banned. I suspect he doesn't. Of course there are dicks who think that driving on the edge is a sign that they are skilled. It isn't. It's a sign that they are driven by their egos.

Clearly you have never had any driving tuition, or put much thought into driving safety, since you passed your test. The problem with these drivers who are 'perfectly in control' is that they are not in control of other road users. If you change from lane 3 to lane 1, and move between two cars in lane 2 with little room to spare between you and them, is that evidence of skill? Or is it someone who is not allowing for the fact that one of those cars could slow, or speed up, unexpectedly. I was terrified because he left no room for error. Had someone done something daft or unexpected, he'd have been in the doo doo. And he'd have blamed the other person for the crash.

Incidentally I have no issue with speed. I've driven fast when the conditions allow. A friend took me for a ride in his Nissan sports car, and floored it. It was exciting. What I do have issue with is driving without due care and attention. That includes driving too close to other cars (which he did), changing lanes with little margin for error (which he did), taking corners at high speed (which he did) and so on.

Sorry to correct you there Lief, but Colin McRae "was" a rally driver, his driving days ended when his helicopter hit the ground!

Leif wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:14 am Complete bull. If you scare someone, or they think you drive like a nutter, it's quite likely you are not safe.

Complete bull.
Given your further explanation of the guy's driving, it looks like he does drive like a t**t.
However, utter rubbish to say that just because a passenger is scared your driving 'must' be unsafe.
People scream on rollercoasters that are actually perfectly safe.

Now, I'm away to phone the police if you don't mind.
While I was breaking into a house last night to steal a TV, another guy shoved past me and stole two TVs, and pooped in their kettle.
Naturally his crime is worse than my crime, so I'm entitled to report him.

Andy Beats wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:45 am

Leif wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:09 pm So if you see someone prowling around a neighbour’s house, you don’t worry because the police have been successfully prosecuting for years.
In fact spending on road policing is falling hence the reliance on automated systems such as speed cameras. The fact that the police encourage reporting of dangerous driving might tell you something, and suggest that your argument is balls.

Ok dokee, report it.

"Yes I was also breaking the law at the time, but his breaking the law is worse than my breaking the law"

Honestly, this is the hypocrisy and holier-than-thou attitude that means I won't be joining camera-club any time soon.

Having a dashcam set-up is very handy for proving your innocence in a non-fault accident or someone scraping your car in a car park and buggering off. My dashcams have caught 2 such events and provided proof for another motorist that a cyclist was cycling way to close to the car in front with respect to his stopping ability, when said car stopped for a zebra crossing in a controlled manner and the cyclist ended up crumpling up into his back end, causing a dent and a few scratches. The cyclist was raging at the elderly driver until I offered to provide my dashcam footage to both. The cyclist scarpered without identifying himself, but he'd been videos not only cycling recklessly, but threatening the old boy.

monkeyhanger wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:44 am Having a dashcam set-up is very handy for proving your innocence in a non-fault accident or someone scraping your car in a car park and buggering off. My dashcams have caught 2 such events and provided proof for another motorist that a cyclist was cycling way to close to the car in front with respect to his stopping ability, when said car stopped for a zebra crossing in a controlled manner and the cyclist ended up crumpling up into his back end, causing a dent and a few scratches. The cyclist was raging at the elderly driver until I offered to provide my dashcam footage to both. The cyclist scarpered without identifying himself, but he'd been videos not only cycling recklessly, but threatening the old boy.

Yes, I'm aware how they can benefit.
I just don't feel they're of enough benefit to me, compared with cost/ugliness/wiring etc.
TBH I'm also a little worried I'd turn into a 'camera crusader'.
From what I've seen, it happens to lots of people in time.
I'm happier just tutting, calling someone a dickhead under my breath and carrying on.

If you can turn off the speed indication do it, or get a on board camera that doesnt have this feature. It can and will be used against you. The Police can take the card from the unt if they have cause you've broken the law.

Andy Beats wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:25 am

Leif wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:14 am Complete bull. If you scare someone, or they think you drive like a nutter, it's quite likely you are not safe.

Complete bull.
Given your further explanation of the guy's driving, it looks like he does drive like a t**t.
However, utter rubbish to say that just because a passenger is scared your driving 'must' be unsafe.
People scream on rollercoasters that are actually perfectly safe.

Have you ever taken driving lessons since you passed your test?

Have you ever had an advanced driving instructor, or a class 1 police driver observe your driving from the passenger seat?

Andy Beats wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:25 am Now, I'm away to phone the police if you don't mind.
While I was breaking into a house last night to steal a TV, another guy shoved past me and stole two TVs, and pooped in their kettle.
Naturally his crime is worse than my crime, so I'm entitled to report him.

Dick.

Andy Beats wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:29 pm

silverhairs wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:58 pm I think a dash cam is a good thing, I have the GPS on all the time, there are so many "cash for crash people" out there, it's good to prove your innocent in a crash, and as for the GPS showing the speed your doing, if your keep to the speed limits, you've nothing to worry about, I've been driving for 54 years and not once had a speeding fine, but now I've said that . Not to say I've had a couple of accidents in that time, and a dash cam would have come in handy.

My paranoia levels haven't reached Daily Mail level, so I don't feel the need for one yet.
Maybe when I'm older and more distrustful of the general world.
By then they'll be available as part of the car rather than some added on lump that needs wire dangling or trim pulled apart.

You'll need a dash cam soon if you stay in the EU and have open boarders with the EU, all those migrants coming over, your daily dash to work with all those extra motors on the road, and a lot of them don't bother getting their cars taxed or insured. A lot of them don't even have licences.
Best of luck
When your PCP runs out, you can get your much loved EV, hoping it's got a built in dash cam

RUM4MO wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:20 am Sorry to correct you there Lief, but Colin McRae "was" a rally driver, his driving days ended when his helicopter hit the ground!

Okay thanks, obviously I didn't know that. That's sad. According to Wikipedia:

"A Fatal Accident Inquiry into the incident concluded, on 6 September 2011, that McRae was at fault for the avoidable helicopter crash that led to his death and the death of his passengers.[42] Sheriff Nikola Stewart stated, after the 16-day inquiry, that McRae had been engaged in "unnecessary and unsafe" low-level flying at the time of the crash."

silverhairs wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:59 am You'll need a dash cam soon if you stay in the EU and have open boarders with the EU, all those migrants coming over, your daily dash to work with all those extra motors on the road, and a lot of them don't bother getting their cars taxed or insured. A lot of them don't even have licences.
Best of luck

How are you getting away with saying this thinly veiled drivel?
Hell, it's not even thinly veiled any more, it's blatant.

Leif wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:01 pm Okay thanks, obviously I didn't know that. That's sad.

Andy Beats wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:14 pm

Leif wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:01 pm Okay thanks, obviously I didn't know that. That's sad.

Master Bates, do answer the two questions I asked you.

Leif wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:29 pm Master Bates, do answer the two questions I asked you.

Nah, I'll leave you wondering.

PS, I'll refer to you as 'mistaken beLeif'

Andy Beats wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:54 am

monkeyhanger wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:44 am Having a dashcam set-up is very handy for proving your innocence in a non-fault accident or someone scraping your car in a car park and buggering off. My dashcams have caught 2 such events and provided proof for another motorist that a cyclist was cycling way to close to the car in front with respect to his stopping ability, when said car stopped for a zebra crossing in a controlled manner and the cyclist ended up crumpling up into his back end, causing a dent and a few scratches. The cyclist was raging at the elderly driver until I offered to provide my dashcam footage to both. The cyclist scarpered without identifying himself, but he'd been videos not only cycling recklessly, but threatening the old boy.

Yes, I'm aware how they can benefit.
I just don't feel they're of enough benefit to me, compared with cost/ugliness/wiring etc.
TBH I'm also a little worried I'd turn into a 'camera crusader'.
From what I've seen, it happens to lots of people in time.
I'm happier just tutting, calling someone a dickhead under my breath and carrying on.

Cost - £205 on a black Friday offer and saved me a definite £300 excess for the car park incident, and a whole lot of hassle with the rear ending - culprit refused to acknowledge the claim when his insurance company pursued him for his side of the story when I made the claim. Mine's paid for itself.

Ugliness - it's a tiny unit (2/3 the size of a box of cigarettes) which sits behind my rear view camera, I can't see it from my driving position.

Wiring - mine is hardwired in and every bit of wiring is hidden behind trim, save for the 2" that plug into the front and rear units.

So many people bumping cars in car parks and sloping off.