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UK-POLOS.NET - THE VW Polo Forum • ello ello ... fraid im sneakin back with a problem-question
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ello ello ... fraid im sneakin back with a problem-question

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:53 am
by Tahrey1043
Right, its 1.50am and i have work in the morning so best be brief.

Against my better judgement and partially against my wishes (they're twisting my good-humour / good-cause bone), i've found myself in a situation where Poppy may, finally, be finding a new home. It's for the best really, as since I got the box on and had a week of pooting about finding out how it affects things and giving everything a good burn-in run, she's stood forlorn in my nan's garage --- and, as it turns out, started to rot. Literally. I'm meaning moulds and fungus. Not good. Needs to be outside, playing in the open air, and if it means a return to some mumsy's shopping and three-miles-to-work-at-25mph duties, so be it.

Anyway.

Battery problems up to when i started taking the engine to bits had got a bit silly, and even now with the new battery in, its moronic. Something's draining it. What is there that can nearly flatten a quarter-charged car battery overnight? When I left it at like 7pm, Saturday, the engine had been running quite a while and I was able to easily restart it after several minutes stood - a fair bit of residual charge there (battery disconnected for a few weeks). Sunday, 11am, NOTHING. Jump start it, run for at least a half hour, engine off, back on within 30 seconds, NOTHING. But engine goes ok, showing battery/alternator to be at least sufficient, once the flywheel's spinning.

Who's up to speed with their electrical problems who could offer a hint?
So far i've had suggestion of it just being a bad battery (charge pattern etc when off the car suggests otherwise), poor connection with the main electrode clamps (whatever you call 'em ... go on top of the battery. sounds odd to me, but i'm clueless enough to go along with), or an "earth leak" somewhere, which is a term i'm familiar with, but do not really understand the meaning or implications of. Sort me out :)

I'm charging the battery up down in the stone-floored utility room now. I had to jump start it for the prospective buyers, which I think probably didn't impress them. In a way I'd prefer if they didn't take it, just to satisfy my obstinacy, on the other hand it means a lot of hassle finding a buyer now i've wasted a weekend grafing the car up to spec a lot earlier than i meant to, and she's a nice lady who's a bit strapped and has a golf that's about to die from sheer age rather than neglect and abuse. So she'll look after the old girl - and is switched on electronically so might be flyered into coming on here.

if anyone was interested in how the car went with the CEG box on, BTW - pretty good. first 4 gears same as ever, of course... 5th was a mixed bag. It'd do 70-80 well enough, but it did need an awful lot of coaxing, and trying to cruise at 75 along the m42 resulted in a lot of wavering around 70 and 65 with the pedal on the boards over the hilly bits mixed with maybe 75% throttle on the flat and an occasional more coasty bit. Great for lower speeds, though, 35 thru to, say, constant 65 or 70 if you were prepared to downshift now and then. Makes a big change to the feel of the car on a high speed cruise, a lot quieter and less thrashtastic even if it is only about a 20% drop. All the same ... getting hold of the 1-litre saloon eco-box would almost definately be the ultimate 'best choice' here. A few percent extra starting/accelerating/hill climbing oomph in the lower 3 gears without much noticable effect on redline speeds or economy, improved flat-out bombing in 4th and greater sustainability in 5th whilst still being an easy cruiser (and probably taking over from 4th in the speed stakes once you eked past 90). Too bad they're like hen's teeth. Still if anyone's got a defunct 4.267 ratio box and want to practice some diff swapping to maybe make a 1-litre/8P hybrid, my old crapped out 4-cogger is free to a good, bad, or ugly home

Re: ello ello ... fraid im sneakin back with a problem-quest

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:29 pm
by skypilot30
[quote="Tahrey1043"]Right, its 1.50am and i have work in the morning so best be brief.



So far i've had suggestion of it just being a bad battery (charge pattern etc when off the car suggests otherwise), poor connection with the main electrode clamps (whatever you call 'em ... go on top of the battery. sounds odd to me, but i'm clueless enough to go along with), or an "earth leak" somewhere, which is a term i'm familiar with, but do not really understand the meaning or implications of. Sort me out :)

Batteries can seem to charge okay on charger and yet be faulty, e.g. one or more of the cells may be faulty. You can check this with a Hydrometer - this measures the S.G. (Specific Gravity) of the acid of each cell. a fully charged cell will read in the order 1250 - 1280, lower than this would be suspect. A hydrometer should cost about a couple of quid from Halfords.

The alternative is to take the battery to a local garage and have them give it a capacity test, again this should only cost a couple of quid, they might even do it for free :-(

An earth leak can be caused by one of the leads (normally the one not connected to the chassis) either through damp or poor insulation allowing current to leak to earth and thus discharging the battery.

A bad connection between the battery terminals and leads can also lead to starting problems ensure connections are clean and greased with vaseline.

Hope that helps

Don

Re: ello ello ... fraid im sneakin back with a problem-quest

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:56 pm
by Tahrey1043
NICE!
Hope that will work some magic if i get a chance to have a go at it over the weekend.
Batteries can seem to charge okay on charger and yet be faulty, e.g. one or more of the cells may be faulty.
Bugger! But I know what you mean from laptop battery packs and the like

(having had to dismantle and reconstruct a... shall we say 'vintage' one... before with regular C-size rechargables when strapped... It only needed one to be screwed to have the laptop report a good charge and a full battery, but die as soon as the AC cord was removed)
You can check this with a Hydrometer - this measures the S.G. (Specific Gravity) of the acid of each cell. a fully charged cell will read in the order 1250 - 1280, lower than this would be suspect. A hydrometer should cost about a couple of quid from Halfords.
and i thought the days of having to play with such tools were long gone, seeing it while peering though my bro's Life On Mars styled Autodata (haynes competitor) book for his old, old astra (OHV engines & the like :shock:)...
nice cheap alternative to a new battery though, fer sure, particularly as it's a pretty new one anyway. If one of them's duff, can it be renewed with a bit of de-ionised water or something (or even new acid), or is it screwed for good?
The alternative is to take the battery to a local garage and have them give it a capacity test, again this should only cost a couple of quid, they might even do it for free :-(
nah, i think i've given the garages round here enough grief for little comeback with this motor :D then again i don't mind abusing one of the chain franchises... especially if Halfords or the AA offer it.
An earth leak can be caused by one of the leads (normally the one not connected to the chassis) either through damp or poor insulation allowing current to leak to earth and thus discharging the battery.
BINGO i think we might have our man there... i'll have to pull the plastic cover off over where the positive lead trails off and see if there's any trouble occurred.
Incidentally would any of the earth straps being a bit frayed and worn (especially around the alternator) be causing anything along these lines? Or would that be notable by e.g. the car grinding to a halt whilst running?
A bad connection between the battery terminals and leads can also lead to starting problems ensure connections are clean and greased with vaseline.
hehe, well, i'll give them a clean up. can't remember if i did that already when doing the rebuild, but if i didn't, that means the grease that's on them is potentially 15 years old... does start fine when the battery's charged, however, it just drains so badly. used to blame it on the (now removed) sony stereo (never really turned "off" completely) when the old battery was in, but now i'm starting to wonder if it would even have been so bad had i left it playing at full volume.

Cheers :D

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:56 pm
by amstrange1
How much you asking for the car?

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:06 pm
by skypilot30
If one of them's duff, can it be renewed with a bit of de-ionised water or something (or even new acid), or is it screwed for good?
A battery consists of a number of cells connected together, usually if one goes down it will pull the battery output down with it.

Usually if a cell is duff - thats it :( Buy a new battery

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:12 am
by Mk2Adam
maybe an idea tahrey? only £6.99 + free postage
Image
http://www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/Wint ... ring_.html

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:36 pm
by skypilot30
Thought the following page might be helpful to you:

http://roadpro.co.uk/techTips01.asp?TechTipID=23

all the best

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:25 am
by Tahrey1043
God, i'm a mong.

Dragged battery out of the car, brought it home, hooked up the trickle charger and let it sit overnight at a healthy 2.5-3.0amps or so. Came up as a solid 12.8v the next day, which is about as full as you can expect a battery to be AFAIK...

Put it in polo. Hook up leads. Get in, turn starter - engine's running in less than a second. Yay! Decide to give it a little scoot around the parking driveway round nan's flats... and adjust the rear view mirror just for the look of the thing...........

Hey, why's the interior light still on?

D'OH..... bloody hell, it could have been like that for the last couple months. Thing's so weedy (barely good enough for reading basic details off a map on a pitch black night) i never would have spotted it otherwise. Only like 1 watt, but that's enough to cause what i've been seeing.

I've left the battery in there and will be checking it again tomorrow (i've got a few days leave from work). Fully expect it to spring right into life again. If not, then it's off on the culprit hunt again, but for now, occam's razor feels fine.

As for how much I'm asking for the car, i'm going to start at £350 (covering - tax, the fuel in the tank, the work i've done to it, and whatever's left from that is probably nothing more than the scrap value of the metal) once i've got it nicely shined, whether i'll get that is anyones guess but it's nice to have a dream (if i didn't say so already, the lady who was looking at it went for something else in the end). For now, there's other bits for sale, starting with...

Sony RDS/Cass headunit, 4x40w, £75, unknown postage (may change price to fit): http://www.tigerstyle.co.uk/poloforum/v ... hp?t=19220
JBL 326e GT 3.5" (85mm, for mk3) speakers, 25/75w, £30, ditto postage: http://www.tigerstyle.co.uk/poloforum/v ... hp?t=19221