UK-POLOS.NET - THE VW Polo Forum

an old beef i know but its a joke isnt it

went an old uni mate birthday party in stafford. she was up for buying a new pc to replace knackered laptop, partially funded by cash presents (but mostly on barclaycard ) ... the nearest PC world* is basically two minutes off my route home so i agree to offer what meagre advice i can on whats a good or crap deal... she hops in her mums shiny new 1800 astra and squirts off at a distinctly un-running-in-period pace, leaving the poor old polo sucking fumes and howling in 2nd and 3rd to keep up along the A-roads towards the m6.

once on the motorway, she joins the back end of a queue of traffic - and I find myself full throttle, top gear, 5000 revs............ being left behind. all the damn way. she had to slow down for me to catch up (pulling 90 plus) three or four times. and this counts for normal on our roads. you say we had a speed limit on that motorway, again?

and the day before, m6 toll, three shoulder-to-shoulder lanes of traffic doing a few mph variation on a theme of 85..

speed kills eh......

on that line of thought, while i was at her place i read a very interesting article in the daily telegraph about the idiocy and danger - but inherent profitability - of our fixed speed limit system.... and how feasible and easily implementable a sensible and safe variable, camera-controlled setup now is... a small suite of cheap rain/standing water, visibility/fog, light level/glare and traffic density/speed sensors, an optional extra input (eg a timer for school hours, approaching trains at a level crossing, "rush hour" and roadworks switches etc) all feeding into a little computer chip (say, a 4mhz Z80, fresh from a gameboy...) running a fairly basic program, outputting to an LED limit sign variable in 5mph steps from 10 up to 100mph (or more likely a narrower range, dependent on the road), not to mention being capable of displaying other signage or helpful warnings/info, and also feeding to a camera that flashes you at, say, between 5 to 15mph over the advised safe speed (higher posted speeds having more leeway? or less??), if you insist on going faster than is actually safe for the conditions - rather than what the somewhat randomly chosen, unchanging metal sign in multiples of 10 says........ hmmmm! i'll have to see if i can get a photocopy of that from the library.... long been thinking that theres many city roads that could do with 25, 35, 45 limits - especially the 25 - instead of being stuck to a "low" 20, "normal" 30 (that may be a touch too high giving the circs), or slightly high 40 (that could in honesty go a little higher some places)

indeed something similar could work very well with the toll road, in conjunction with a charge that varies with the level of traffic on the road - or more precisely, the difference in traffic volume between the two main routes and two or three selected other "parallel" trunk route that aren't the m6... keeping the flow of vehicles on all of them roughly similar and balanced for quickest/easiest journey time for everyone... busiest period on the m6, but no-one on the toll... drop the charge to a quid, and up the limit to 90... as it becomes equal between the two, drop to 75 and up to £2.50... and if the toll road starts to jam up while the old route is becoming barer, down to 60 (m25 style) and £4 a throw... a way of controlling speed on the old m6 as well, in a way!

* yes, yes, pc world, indeed prebuilt machines in general, i know, i know already - but well.... a 20-icouldntsaywithaclearconcience year old young lady who just wants any old computer to write a thesis and play the sims on... she knows PC world sell them... pretty hard to argue, especially when "20 minutes of scanning for the blaster worm, virus program still not finished" equated to "laptop is dead" in the same mind

I think France has the right idea...

(apart from their hatred of radar detectors and the way they park on a little slip road thingy on the motorway, out of site, while their radar device is on a little tripod by the side of the road )

... as their motorway has a speed limit, but if it rains or snows the speed limit drops down to a lower limit.

Now if this worked the other way too...

This is how I feel the motorway system in the UK should opperate:

Rush Hours - Monday to Friday: 70
Rest of the day: 80
Night: 90
Fog/Heavy Rain/Snow etc: 50

Have that as the limits on ALL UK Motorways so that drivers don't have to remember loads of different limits for different roads.

The Matrix Displays on the motorways could post up the current speed limit in force to remind you too.

I'm not sure about Toll roads.

They'd have to ditch the Road Tax system totally and charge for motorway use (like France used to be - not sure now).

And they'd have to make sure that the average driver (10-20k per annum) wouldn't have to pay more than 190 quid a year even if they used the motorway system constantly (£190 is currently the maximum you'd pay for 12 Months Tax on a private vehicle).

Also, less speed cameras (only next to schools and genuine accident blackspots) and more traffic cops please.

Hey you forgot one:

Vectra/Mondeo driving reps: A fast as I damn well want

70 in the rush hour?

You're having an animal with a mottled hide and very long neck that lives in the african savannah aren't you?

45 more like, with the infoboard beneath taunting you - "you should be so lucky"

hehehe...
(well ok, in a good few places you can still make that speed, but following on from the m25 variable limit, which seemed to work well any time i experienced it.... traffic very packed, yes, but rolling along at the electronically posted limit with no stops or more than 5mph slowdowns... there's effective! 70 limit may have meant quite vicious stop-start.. 60, 50, 40 meaning a smooth and safe, if ultimately just as slow, progression)

all for the dropped limits in rain, and especially fog or snow... absolutely no love for those tailgating me because i'm driving as fast as i feel safe to stop on a greasy, wet road, already feeling some mild aquaplaning on the corners, or thinking they're still alright to do 70-80 because they've turned their rear foglight on, even though the rest of the traffic has dropped to 60 or less because they simply can't see any further.

i'd really like to hear the truth of the matter on whether italy really have raised their limits on "straight, clear" sections of autostrada in good weather to 150km/h (a pretty "even" speed, really), or if it was one big hoax to get everyone's hopes up ... changing the uk motorway limits to those blanket speeds at different times all over wouldn't be suitable on all sections... eg theres parts that would be better for 90 or more at far more times, and there's others such as the 2-lane length of the m42 where you'd probably have to ban trucks overtaking each other in some places if it was to go higher than 80...

i did also hear of someone's idea to give people who passed the IAM etc a little "90" sticker to go on the bumpers so they were allowed extra leeway.. think that would lead to some quite arrogant incidents with chumps who go on the course simply so they can drive fast and forget all the other teaching at the same time though.....

Hey,
Stafford is only 7 mile up the road from me.
you shoulda popped in for a cuppa

Josh_PoloGTi wrote:I think France has the right idea...

(apart from their hatred of radar detectors and the way they park on a little slip road thingy on the motorway, out of site, while their radar device is on a little tripod by the side of the road )

They do that over here too, well Suffolk Police on the A14 anyway

Doesn't the Autobahn have a seriously low fatality rate despite there being no official speed limit?

Nelson_Wilbury wrote:

Josh_PoloGTi wrote:I think France has the right idea...

(apart from their hatred of radar detectors and the way they park on a little slip road thingy on the motorway, out of site, while their radar device is on a little tripod by the side of the road )

They do that over here too, well Suffolk Police on the A14 anyway

Doesn't the Autobahn have a seriously low fatality rate despite there being no official speed limit?

No don't think so and if they do it has little to do with speed limits and EVERYTHING to do with Germans actually being able to drive (German driving test is one of the toughest). I feel a lot safer doing 130 on the autobahn than 70 on the UK motorways.

Oh yeah and a lot of sections of Autobahn do have speed limits

All speed limits are seriously out of date - weren't most of them set over 50 years ago? And the principals they are based on (stopping distance, handling characteristics etc...) are based on old cars - with crossply tyres and drum brakes all round.

I once watched a test/review on TV (I think it might have been Top Gear, its was Richard Hammond doing it anyway ) were they compared the performance of a car from 50yrs ago (when the driving test was introduced) to a poverty-spec Ford Focus - they found that the focus could stop from 90 in the same distance the old car stopped from 70.

The speed limits should move with automotive technology and advances.

As for the variable speed limit idea thats a great idea - with one vital flaw. It would take organisation and intelligence on behalf of the government to pull it off, which we all know is completely beyond their capabilties.

KarlM wrote: I once watched a test/review on TV (I think it might have been Top Gear, its was Richard Hammond doing it anyway ) were they compared the performance of a car from 50yrs ago (when the driving test was introduced) to a poverty-spec Ford Focus - they found that the focus could stop from 90 in the same distance the old car stopped from 70.

Didn't catch that programme, but shouldn't they of been testing a car from 1965 (when the 70mph limit was introduced)? I'm all in favour of the limit going up but mucked-up tests like hammond's don't do us any good

I did see it - they compared an old Ford Anglia (fairly lightweight, but drums, dodgy suspension, crap and narrow tyres, no servo, anti lock or rear wheel/load compensators), a modern hatch of some description, possibly the cheapest possible focus variant, and a porsche 911. All of them from 70.

Anglia did it in about 105 metres, including driver reaction time... and thats with a pro test driver going at it. Didn't immediately lock the wheels, but the rears went long before the fronts, stepped out just slightly, LOADS of smoke, eventually he was into a full 4 wheel slide. Nice big black lines down the road, and when it came to a halt, one hell of a rock back onto its haunches. However locking it probably was necessary - the amount of fade coming in trying to stop from 70 in minimum distance on all-round drums would have seen the pedal go to the floor on a family saloon i'd wager.

Add that to the distinct lack of safety concious design in it's construction (javelin-pole steering column, super stiff engine bay instead of crumple zones, etc) and travel at 70 becomes a distinctly worrying concept unless you're on a fairly empty, well paved road..... as the M6 was originally designed to be (design capacity of... what... 20% of it's current maximums? and during the week hardly drops below the original figure at any point because of freight traffic? i've been in unexpected jams on that road at midnight on a sunday..) and are making frequent stops e.g. to top up the oil and coolant at every service station
Not to mention most cars weren't capable of sustaining that speed for too long because of engine stress, tyre fatigue (losing tread, blowouts, etc) and the law allowing more or less bald tyres, etc. The 70 was more or less a requirement..... would probably have seemed like 110 today on most cars (and required as much throttle).

Focus was a whole lot better, something like 65 metres, a heavier body being offset by disc brakes, servo assistance, better suspension (rear wheels having more effect), better balancing, much wider tyres (the standard rubber on most cars these days making even mine look skinny... the base-spec Daewoo Matiz comes with 165/70s!) with stickier, longer life, more resilient compounds. Can't remember if it had ABS - probably not, as a demo of how just those help... Still some smoke, but managed to pull up a lot more forcefully without having to do a 4-way lockup and slide. Plus the braking effect was much more immediate.
Plus crumple zones, seatbelts, airbags, side impact bars, stronger roof in case of a rollover, safety glass, more supportive (e.g. anti-submarining) seats, collapsible steering column, engine bays and firewalls designed to send the block to the roadway rather than the passenger compartment, and a steering wheel not made out of wire-thin solid steel.

And of course, the 911 was awesome. Full ABS and traction control, each tyre having about as much road contact as all four of mine, immense all-round discs, the works. Matey gets the signal, hits the line, whatever, at 70mph, hams the squeaky pedal.... and pulls up in all of 47 metres with barely a squeal... no black marks, no smoke, absolutely no loss of control. Sweet. (and you know that the other safety measures are second to none)

....unlike the 1965 Anglia which basically became a metal boulder that's fallen off a glacial hill which just happens to have a rubber coating on the bottom.

Think i'll might do the same test with mine, if i can find a safe place to do it and a willing accomplice. Yknow.... they choose some random point of reference while belting along a long, straight, wide, flat, empty A-road....... do the ol' driving examiner bang-a-pen-on-the-dash and yell "STOP" thing...... and grab a tape measure to see how far past that P.O.R. firstly the tyre marks start, and where the car comes to rest. Wonder how far it actually takes a 1991 Polo to draw up from 70? Think it should be within 75-80 metres allowing for reaction time... its got many of the same enhancements as the Anglia.

What I didn't see though was any repeat tests to check what speed the other two cars would have to be doing to need a 100 metre braking distance.... there might have been a couple repeats of the 70mph one to demonstrate brake fade, but no high speed stuff.