The mysteries of part numbers? CBZB Timing chains??

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wolfie
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Ah, Ok. To be honest the stores desk did no seem like he wanted to be helpful.

I looked on Etka and created a list.

Problem is I could not find the part numbers on Etka for the upper and lower sprockets. They just don't list them as individual parts at least on the VW catalog.

However you listed them in your polovw.it post

(03F 109 571 F) (Upper sprocket)?????
(03F 105 209 G) (lower sprocket)?????

This is what I think I need. I will double check them against your list tomorrow.

1109 - 1111 1111 - 0712
D >> - 06.11.2011 D - 07.11.2011>>

03F109210D (Chain case, I have a seal. But I am not sure how old it is, so plan on getting new.)
03F109158G (Wider chain)
03F109507D (tensioner)
03F109509F (Guide rear)
03F109469E (Guide front)
WHT004069 (use original)
WHT004068 (use original)
WHT004068 (use original)
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Jay-Jay
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

You don't need to order each part one by one.
There is a kit which contains all of them and allows you to obtain the crankshaft sprocket, which is not possible to obtain otherwise.
The part number for the kit is 03F198158B (this is why I simply call it "Kit B", distinguishing it from the old 03F198229A kit, which I call "Kit A").
I wrote all of this in my guide.
And plus to that, I also specified all of the parts (with related part numbers and photos) that are not included in the kit, but that you still need for doing a perfect work!

As soon as possible I'll post the guide in english on this forum.
wolfie
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Cheers for that. I've read through a couple of "Chain update" threads, but yours has way, way more information and detail. You must have put a fair few hours into that.

Having read through your post, I think doing it myself will be beyond me, simply because I do not have some of the tools required. (Also my health is not good) Also I do not have access to VCDS and some of the tools required are quite expensive to purchase for a single job. I think it will be a case of ensuring I buy the correct parts and let a local independent VW garage do the work as they are pretty good, I have used them before.

I am just working through it from the beginning so that I can fully understand the process start to finish. Plus I noticed that you posted the polovw.it thread back in 2015, so thought I would check as many part numbers as possible, just in case there have been any more updates along the way.

These are the parts catalog I've been using to try and check for correct parts.
https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/polo ... /2011-672/
http://www.oemepc.com/

With regards to the kits 03F198158A & 03F198158B I simply can not find them referenced in any of the ETKA online catalogs. The same with some of the individual parts 03F 109 571 F, 03F 105 209 G Upper and lower sprockets. So I'm slightly confused as to where these numbers originated. As I have said, when I spoke to VW parts I was told "There is no KIT!" So I wondered whether the "KITS" are actually Skoda part numbers, but I still could not find them. (Though I have not spoken to their parts department directly)

However if I have read your post correctly. Some of the parts only exist as parts of the kit, not individually.

THESE ARE MY LISTS SO FAR. I HAVE NOT ADDED SCREWS, SEALS, ETC. BUT WILL AS I WORK THROUGH AND CHECK WHAT IS NEEDED) I will update it to a full list as I go. Hopefully by the time I've checked. My list = Your list. :) :)

VW-Polo 6R0
CBZB (77Kw/105PS) 1109 - 1111. D >> - 06.11.2011


03F 103 101 - Cylinder Block with pistons.
03F109210D - Chain cover

03F198158A
03F109158K - Chain
03F109507B - Tensioner
03F109509C - Rear Guide
03F109469C - Front Guide
WHT004069 - Bearing screw Top front
WHT004068 - Bearing screw Lower front
WHT004068 - Bearing screw Lower Rear


VW-Polo 6R0
CBZB (77Kw/105PS) 1111 - 0712. D - 07.11.2011>>


03F103101B - Revised Block (Wider chain)

03F198158B
03F109158G - Chain
03F109507D - Tensioner
03F109509F - Rear Guide
03F109469E - Front Guide
WHT004069 - Bearing Screw Top Front
WHT004068 - Bearing Screw Lower Front
WHT004068 - Bearing Screw Lower Rear


I have noticed that the 03F198158B kits is now being sold with a little note that for cars pre 06/11 you need to fit ALL the parts. Which sort of supports the "B" kit will fit all.

Thanks for your help. The only reason I am slowly working through it myself, is so I better understand it.

EDIT:-
Please, please don't spend too much time answering questions and uploading information. I will not be having the work done until August 2019 earliest, so there is no urgency at all. I'm just asking questions and you've already been a huge help. I have managed to translate and download the polovw.it post.. :)

Thanks.
Last edited by wolfie on Mon May 06, 2019 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

I'm just trying to be helpful here, so bear with me, these two VW Group parts listings are, I think provided by a 3rd party, the genuine EKTA parts listing has an area/field in each section where all the repair kits are listed if supplied by the manufacturer.
I'm just trying to maximise what you can find out by yourself and minimise what Jay-Jay needs to do to help you out.
wolfie
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

RUM4MO wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 10:00 am I'm just trying to be helpful here, so bear with me, these two VW Group parts listings are, I think provided by a 3rd party, the genuine EKTA parts listing has an area/field in each section where all the repair kits are listed if supplied by the manufacturer.
I'm just trying to maximise what you can find out by yourself and minimise what Jay-Jay needs to do to help you out.
Mate it's all good. I just don't want folk to spend hours and hours, going all round the houses to humour me. I've leaned more about it all in the last few days than I have done in the past months. Plus it's an expensive thing to get wrong which is why I am being ultra, ultra careful/cautious. Plus I think the exercise may be useful to other folk.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

wolfie wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 am Cheers for that. I've read through a couple of "Chain update" threads, but yours has way, way more information and detail. You must have put a fair few hours into that.
[...]
Thanks for your help. The only reason I am slowly working through it myself, is so I better understand it.

EDIT:-
Please, please don't spend too much time answering questions and uploading information. I will not be having the work done until August 2019 earliest, so there is no urgency at all. I'm just asking questions and you've already been a huge help. I have managed to translate and download the polovw.it post.. :)

Thanks.
No problem, wolfie!
I spent months of reading, studying, searching and translating forums in russian, german and czech languages. I really lost tons of sleep hours trying to figure all this out, when the entire issue about 1.2 TSI chain defect was covered by a big cloud of mistery. Plus to that, in that period of my life I literally didn't know much about engines and car mechanics in general. That experience changed me completely.

The guide I made is the epytome of all I learnt and I'm more than happy to help somebody else to better understand it! :)

You can't easily find informations about the repair kit's part number, because it's available only in the Skoda parts's network.

Now I'm at work. Within the end of the day or at maximum tomorrow or Wednesday I should be able to open a new thread with my complete guide with all the photos and updated part numbers, all in english. :)
I just ask you to wait till that moment, so you can ask me all you need in that thread. :)
wolfie
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Thanks Jay-Jay.

There is no urgency to this. I don't plan on having it done for a few months yet, so do please do not go out of you way to reply quickly. As and when you can find the time will be absolutely fine. Like you, I am learning all I can before I commit to getting it done.

It is strange how VW appear not to offer the repair kit, it does not seem to make any sense. Then again VW do not have a great track record for making sensible decisions recently.

Just for out of interest.
I did not realise that VW only used a interference fit on the lower sprocket. I thought keyways were used in important areas. While hunting for information I found this drawing for the manufacture of the tool required to press the lower sprocket.
Lower Sprocket press tool.jpg
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

wolfie wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:37 pm Thanks Jay-Jay.
There is no urgency to this. I don't plan on having it done for a few months yet, so do please do not go out of you way to reply quickly. As and when you can find the time will be absolutely fine. Like you, I am learning all I can before I commit to getting it done.
There is no urgency, but at this point I think my guide can be helpfull to many more people if I post it in english also on this forum. :)
wolfie wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:37 pm It is strange how VW appear not to offer the repair kit, it does not seem to make any sense. Then again VW do not have a great track record for making sensible decisions recently.
I guess we'll never know... :roll:
wolfie wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:37 pm I did not realise that VW only used a interference fit on the lower sprocket. I thought keyways were used in important areas. While hunting for information I found this drawing for the manufacture of the tool required to press the lower sprocket.
My suspect is that when they initially developed the engine, they did not think so much about the replacement of the timing chain. Infact, on the SSP (Self Study Program) document relative to the 1.2 TSI CBZ* engine, it's written that the timing chain (theorically) lasts the entire life of the engine, so it doesn't need to be serviced.
But later facts disproved that, as we sadly know...

For replacing the crankshaft sprocket on my engine I used two homemade tools. I will post photos and more details in my thread.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

Are you referring to me?

Four years ago I discovered about the possibility to install the Kit "B" on "pre-Nov. 2011" engines, while I was casually reading and translating some russian and czech forums, like these one:
http://www.club-yeti.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=6409
http://www.club-yeti.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=10516
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

Not directly, I noticed this and thought I'd add it to this thread if it is the correct kit - and probably at a better price than a UK based VW dealer or at least a UK based Skoda dealership would sell it, if it is the wrong kit please say so that wolfie can ignore it.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

I suggest to buy the repair kit "B" only from a VW parts shop, because some components (chain and tensioner) included in the Kit "B" have been updated in the last few years.
Buying it from VW, you can be sure to receive the latest revision of each component, which is the most important thing to achieve regarding this issue.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by RUM4MO »

I thought that wolfie was having trouble getting his local VW dealership to understand that these kits were available - a kit of that part number is the same contents wise from Skoda or SEAT or VW, so he would be better buying it cheaply from that listed source if that kit part number is correct.
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by Jay-Jay »

From what I understood, he phoned a VW parts shop and they told him that there's no repair kit available for his car. Which is true!
If you open ETKA, select VW brand and Polo 6R model, then go into Engine section and search for 1.2 TSI CBZ* timing chain components, no repair kit is listed! :D
  • Image
That's because the kit is not listed under VW, Audi and Seat parts's network, but you can find it only in the Skoda parts's network, as I wrote before. :wink:
So, you need to search for a Skoda model (for example, the Roomster) and voilà! The repair kit appears under the list of all the timing chain components!
  • Image
And this is the content of the kit:
  • Image
Plus to that, I strongly believe it's better to buy the repair kit from a VW parts shop, because the timing chain and the chain tensioner included in the Kit "B" have been updated in the last few years:
  • The timing chain went from 03F109158G to 03F109158J
  • The chain tensioner went from 03F109507D to 03F109507F
Who knows if the repair kit sold by other shops has the latest revision of those parts? I honestly would never take the risk!
wolfie
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Re: The mysteries of part numbers?

Post by wolfie »

Cheers for doing all the work guys.. :) :)

Just to clarify. The only versions of Etka that I am using are the free online versions, which may be why I am not seeing all the information. Now! A few weeks back I spoke to VW parts department and enquired about the availability of a "Timing chain replacement Kit" with all the necessary parts to replace a worn chain. They told me that there was "No VW Kit" however they could obviously supply the separate parts.

As I understand it, after some reading, I became aware of the two kits that do appear to exist 03F198158A & 03F198158B and seem to be readily available from many online suppliers. However I was unsure as where those part numbers actually came from?

After a little more research and finding Jay-jay's and some other Italian and Russian sites it appeared that Skoda do appear to do the full kits.

Now I could see which parts were being used and simply buy them from VW. Well that was the plan, but as I have said some of the parts were not listed as separate items so I could not check the numbers or buy them directly. Plus I still could not find a genuine VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat, list of parts included in the kit. (I was simply looking at the numbers in the online kits)

I agree with Jay-Jay, that I would not want to buy one of the "Kit's" off Internet suppliers, as it is much more difficult to verify correct parts and quality. However I appear to be missing a trick, as no matter which online version of Etka I choose. None that I have found so far, list either of these kits. I can find a couple of references to a 03F 198 229, which appears to be an early VW repair kit that is no longer available.
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