Oil gearbox change

[Le_Combattant]

My car is now 7 years old and has over 81200 km or 50455 miles and I scheduled oil change.

It's a 6C Polo from June 2014 with the 5-spd manual gearbox (Code: "PED")
All my tools are ready: keys, pump and...the oil.
I spotted the two screws: one for the drain, one for the fill. Nothing too complicated.

Why an oil replacement ?

Because I think with years oil lose her proprieties and I miss some gear shift..my bad.
So too eliminat all metal debris, nothing better than an oil replacement.

But here is the question:

I found this topic: viewtopic.php?t=70555
I read it entirely and I was very interessting, really.

For the "PED" gearbox, VW recommend theG05 252 7A2 oil.
At my dealer ship and on internet it's about 44 euros per liter (or 37£). So about 120 euros for 3 liters.

Expensive so.

So I checked on internet an alternative and I found Febi Bilstein. They have one product, the 21829. And according to their website, it's compatible with the following part number: G05 252 7A2.
Link: https://partsfinder.bilsteingroup.com/f ... +%2F+90+hp

At 13 euros (11£) it's not expensive at all.
So I bought three of them.


But now I read this topic (viewtopic.php?t=70555) I'm a little bit scary about the fact to put this oil in my gearbox and and deteriorate it faster than expected with for exemple the official VW Oil.
Castrol did some oil but I didn't see on the website the compatibility with the part number G05 252 7A2.


Has anyone else tried it and if not what are the feedbacks and / or your advices ?

[amer6R]

i never heard that anyone had any problems. In the end VW doesn't make the oil, they re brand it as VW.

[Le_Combattant]

100% agree with you but according to some people, VW would have add some specific additives

[amer6R]

Well VW can say to X factory add additive, but I don't see a reason why that factory wouldn't sell the exact oil under its name.

In the end if gear boxes used to die, quick there wouldnt be a market for 3rd party oil.

I dont really see a reason why vw would put any type of aditives. They dont offer warranty more than 100 000 km, or 5 years.
Any gl4 will do the job fine.

[veteran]

Le_Combattant,

So, what did you do, in the end? Did you use the Febi gearbox oil?

Your case has been of interest to me because, firstly, my own PED gearbox is probably much the same one as yours, albeit that there may be a few differences due to your Polo having been presumbly purchased in France, and secondly because a few years ago I too went through the same thought processes as yourself when I discovered that Febi sold a VW gearbox oil that was said to be compliant for the vehicle. A reliable source on these forums informed me that he'd used the Febi oil in his own Polo and had had no problems whatever with it. It was in all probability exactly the same as VW's G05 252 7A2 oil, but at half the price.

Incidentally, I think you'll find - or have by now found - that you need less than a litre of it (unless you manage to somehow remove every last millilitre of existing oil in the gearbox), so maybe just buying a single litre of the Febi will have been adequate.

In my case, I thought long and hard as to the pros and cons of using the Febi rather than VW's own branded oil. But despite reassurances from the aforementioned respondent, I eventually 'chickened out' and bought VW's. I recall that the 1 litre bottle of it, bought from my local VW dealer, cost me about £32. But at least I went home not worrying about compliance issues. I felt at the time that I'd rather pay VW's asking price than for ever being anxious about the Febi.

The Febi stuff is indeed probably exactly the same as VW's. After all, we're all well aware, I'm sure, of VW's generally inflated pricings for parts and consumables. But at the time I couldn't find any VW-compliance labeling on the Febi container, as seen on the Web. That, of course, didn't automatically mean that it wasn't compliant; most probably, Febi Bilstein may not yet have been given the licence by VAG to openly market it as such.

Getting the new oil into the gearbox required some fiddly work. After some initial experimenting, I decided to do it 'up top', by leaning over the back of the engine and utilising a small plastic funnel and plastic tube. I placed a tray underneath to catch the spillage. Tackled like that, and once filled, I refitted the filler plug just by hand and tightened it a little more with suitable tooling. However, I didn't fully tighten it at that stage, as the recommendation was to run the gearbox for a minute or so, to get the new oil fully recirculated and settled. The level could therefore drop a bit. I did that and then repeated the whole filling exercise, checking the overspill again. It was only then that I put the car on to my ramps and got underneath the vehicle and fully tightened the plug(s) to the requisite torques. You need to do both the gearbox filler plug and the gearbox drain plug up real tight. Don't, for goodness sake, get anything cross-threaded as you're tightening. BTW, they have tapered threads. Remember that VW assumes that, from factory fill, the gearbox will remain permanently sealed. So, do be careful about the tightening, and keep an eye out for any small leaks in the coming months. Both the engine and gearbox oils have a similar yellowy hue, and their viscosities aren't strikingly different either, so it can be difficult to distinguish between engine-oil leaks and gearbox-oil leaks, if any occur.

[Le_Combattant]

Le_Combattant,

So, what did you do, in the end? Did you use the Febi gearbox oil?

Your case has been of interest to me because, firstly, my own PED gearbox is probably much the same one as yours, albeit that there may be a few differences due to your Polo having been presumbly purchased in France, and secondly because a few years ago I too went through the same thought processes as yourself when I discovered that Febi sold a VW gearbox oil that was said to be compliant for the vehicle. A reliable source on these forums informed me that he'd used the Febi oil in his own Polo and had had no problems whatever with it. It was in all probability exactly the same as VW's G05 252 7A2 oil, but at half the price.

Incidentally, I think you'll find - or have by now found - that you need less than a litre of it (unless you manage to somehow remove every last millilitre of existing oil in the gearbox), so maybe just buying a single litre of the Febi will have been adequate.

In my case, I thought long and hard as to the pros and cons of using the Febi rather than VW's own branded oil. But despite reassurances from the aforementioned respondent, I eventually 'chickened out' and bought VW's. I recall that the 1 litre bottle of it, bought from my local VW dealer, cost me about £32. But at least I went home not worrying about compliance issues. I felt at the time that I'd rather pay VW's asking price than for ever being anxious about the Febi.

The Febi stuff is indeed probably exactly the same as VW's. After all, we're all well aware, I'm sure, of VW's generally inflated pricings for parts and consumables. But at the time I couldn't find any VW-compliance labeling on the Febi container, as seen on the Web. That, of course, didn't automatically mean that it wasn't compliant; most probably, Febi Bilstein may not yet have been given the licence by VAG to openly market it as such.

Getting the new oil into the gearbox required some fiddly work. After some initial experimenting, I decided to do it 'up top', by leaning over the back of the engine and utilising a small plastic funnel and plastic tube. I placed a tray underneath to catch the spillage. Tackled like that, and once filled, I refitted the filler plug just by hand and tightened it a little more with suitable tooling. However, I didn't fully tighten it at that stage, as the recommendation was to run the gearbox for a minute or so, to get the new oil fully recirculated and settled. The level could therefore drop a bit. I did that and then repeated the whole filling exercise, checking the overspill again. It was only then that I put the car on to my ramps and got underneath the vehicle and fully tightened the plug(s) to the requisite torques. You need to do both the gearbox filler plug and the gearbox drain plug up real tight. Don't, for goodness sake, get anything cross-threaded as you're tightening. BTW, they have tapered threads. Remember that VW assumes that, from factory fill, the gearbox will remain permanently sealed. So, do be careful about the tightening, and keep an eye out for any small leaks in the coming months. Both the engine and gearbox oils have a similar yellowy hue, and their viscosities aren't strikingly different either, so it can be difficult to distinguish between engine-oil leaks and gearbox-oil leaks, if any occur.

Hi Veteran,

Currently I didn't perform the gearbox oil change because of one stupid thing. I was not equiped of the right tool to unscrew the plug.
So I had to ordered a tool box witht the right hex key (in France it's 17mm or 1 inch in England, not sure). But because I'm not at home currently, I will have to wait the end of the month before replacing the oil.

I've also discussed with a member of a French Polo's facebook page who have also made a gearbox oil change (it's a GTI). He also used the Febi's oil and since the replacement, no issue at all. So now I'm pretty confident.

Acces to the gearbox drain/filling plug are not the esiest ones. Personnaly I bought ramps (frome Race Ramps) to have a positive angle (front of the car up).
Like this I can have a way better acces to the drain/filling plug and also, drain the maximum of oil.

Indeed, the drain plug is done trough the differential and not the gearbox it self (even if the differential is part of gearbox). So by lifting up the front of the car (I hope), I could drain the entire oil (2.1L according to my technical documentation).

To filling the gearbox with the new oil, I will put back the car on a flat surface a use a hand pump to push the new oil in the gearbox.*
On paper it's seems simple, in reality it could be different

Question, you said "However, I didn't fully tighten it at that stage, as the recommendation was to run the gearbox for a minute or so, to get the new oil fully recirculated and settled. The level could therefore drop a bit. I did that and then repeated the whole filling exercise, checking the overspill again."

How can the new oil can recirculate trough the gearbox knowing that their is no pump (not like a DSG I think) ?

According to my technical review, you just to have to filling the gearbox with new oil on a flat surface and wait for the overspill. Once reached, tight the plug.

[amer6R]

Just turn the wheels by your hand ( both tires must be lifter and in gear) but it wont make any difference, especially if the car is tilted. I think Haynes manual also calls for 2.1l

if you dont have a 17 mm hex you can use 17 mm bolt and two nuts
wheel bolt will work, but you will need 2x m14x1.5 nuts

[Le_Combattant]

Just turn the wheels by your hand ( both tires must be lifter and in gear) but it wont make any difference, especially if the car is tilted. I think Haynes manual also calls for 2.1l

if you dont have a 17 mm hex you can use 17 mm bolt and two nuts
wheel bolt will work, but you will need 2x m14x1.5 nuts

In gear ?
1st ? 2nd ?

I'm not sure of what you said.

-Lift the car
-Turn the wheel and in gear

This allow better oil flow ?

[amer6R]

turn the tires with your hands.

if you dont have the 17 mm hex Your wheel bolt head is 17 mm. you can use it. but you will need two nuts on it.

[Le_Combattant]

turn the tires with your hands.

if you dont have the 17 mm hex Your wheel bolt head is 17 mm. you can use it. but you will need two nuts on it.

Oh ok I see. Now it's not a problem, I purchased from Bahco a set of hex tools.

[amer6R]

meh, drain all that you can and measur it and pour the same anmout if your are going to tilt it to get the max in and out. thats the safest.

[Le_Combattant]

meh, drain all that you can and measur it and pour the same anmout if your are going to tilt it to get the max in and out. thats the safest.

Yup, I already prepared some bottle to check how much I drain.
I don't know if on PED gearbox, the entire goes out or some quantity due to the design of the drain plug, stays in.

[veteran]

It's been a week or more since you last posted. Have you tackled this job yet? If so, how did you get on? Were your plans for it realiseable?

Perhaps you don't know that, when VW fits the gearboxes into these 6R and 6C Polos, they regard them as then 'sealed for life', though most in these forums would say that's a bit of an over-description by VW. That's to say, at the factory they put the oil into the gearbox, and from that point on in the vehicle's life they don't expect the owner or anyone else to ever change the oil, except under drastically-required circumstances. So, particularly on the PED gearbox, they've not positioned the drain plug right at the bottom of the gearbox casing. Instead, it's about a third of the way up. This means that, in situ, you can't fully drain the gearbox. Something around 0.5 litre to 1 litre is left in it. My 2017 Polo has the PED 5-speed gearbox and so that's what I found on mine when I myself did a gearbox oil-change. I would be very surprised if yours is any different. Really, the only situations where VW would expect someone to completely renew the oil in its entirety is if the gearbox developed a fault and had to be swapped for a new one, or the clutch maybe had to come out. In any other situation, therefore, VW only ever expects any amounts of fresh gearbox oil to be added if, for some reason, the gearbox is leaking and the oil is gradually being lost over time. That's to say, just 'topping up'.

Certainly, when I completely changed mine, I needed to put in less than a litre of the fresh oil before the filler orifice began overflowing. I put together a small funnel and clear plastic tubing and did the filling from above, leaning over the back of the engine. Originally, I'd planned to do the filling from underneath the car, with the vehicle raised on ramps at the front. The idea was to use a shallow plastic container with a long, flexible spout that fitted into the gearbox filler orifice. I also bought a rubber bulb and one-way valve with which to possibly do the filling, just in case the plastic container was baulked by something and couldn't be used. But in the end I gave up those two ideas and did it instead from above, using the funnel and tubing method. The viscocity of the oil was such that it flowed quite easily down through the tubing. Another good reason for choosing the funnel technique was that it avoided tilting the gearbox - to accurately re-fill, the car needs to be on a flat, level surface. If you use front ramps or you do it on a slope, you end up either putting too little oil in, or too much. So, you'd need to give that some thought, I'd say.

Personally, I'd also advise that you replace the filler and drain plugs with new ones, or at the very least apply some high-temperature thread sealant on them when refitting them, as you definitely need to avoid getting leaks. They're tapered threads. However, if you were unlucky you could still get leaks. The two plugs in question can be ordered from your local VW dealer; they're inexpensive. I'd also urge you to borrow or otherwise acquire a short, adjustable torque wrench, so that you can properly tighten both of these plugs. Offhand, I can't recall the official torque values but will be able to look them up for you if necessary.

Late edit: Le_Combattant, if you look in your Private Message inbox, you'll find further info from me that includes the requisite torque values.

[Le_Combattant]

Hi @Veteran,

Sorry for the late, I'm currently on exam period so the oil replacement is not a priority for now.

Next week, it will be done because I bought a torque wrench and a kit (both from Bahco) to do the job perfectly. On the last engine oil replacement I didn't tight enought the bolt and I have a little leak.

"That's to say, at the factory they put the oil into the gearbox, and from that point on in the vehicle's life they don't expect the owner or anyone else to ever change the oil, except under drastically-required circumstances."

Yup I already heard this sentence from car manufacturer (but with automatic gearbox). But at 120000 km the gearbox is dead and the car also because the fixing cost the double of the vehicule's price.
Vehicle's life mean today "when a major part will break".

"So, particularly on the PED gearbox, they've not positioned the drain plug right at the bottom of the gearbox casing. Instead, it's about a third of the way up. This means that, in situ, you can't fully drain the gearbox. Something around 0.5 litre to 1 litre is left in it. My 2017 Polo has the PED 5-speed gearbox and so that's what I found on mine when I myself did a gearbox oil-change. I would be very surprised if yours is any different. Really, the only situations where VW would expect someone to completely renew the oil in its entirety is if the gearbox developed a fault and had to be swapped for a new one, or the clutch maybe had to come out. In any other situation, therefore, VW only ever expects any amounts of fresh gearbox oil to be added if, for some reason, the gearbox is leaking and the oil is gradually being lost over time. That's to say, just 'topping up'."

Yeah, the drain plug is badly designed. The optimal position should be on the bottom of the gearbox.
Lucky to me (it's an hypothesis) I have some ramps to level up the front of the car. Maybye like this I could remove even more oil.

But in any rate, I will measure the oil quantity removed to know how much I have to put in it.

"Certainly, when I completely changed mine, I needed to put in less than a litre of the fresh oil before the filler orifice began overflowing. I put together a small funnel and clear plastic tubing and did the filling from above, leaning over the back of the engine. Originally, I'd planned to do the filling from underneath the car, with the vehicle raised on ramps at the front. The idea was to use a shallow plastic container with a long, flexible spout that fitted into the gearbox filler orifice. I also bought a rubber bulb and one-way valve with which to possibly do the filling, just in case the plastic container was baulked by something and couldn't be used. But in the end I gave up those two ideas and did it instead from above, using the funnel and tubing method. The viscocity of the oil was such that it flowed quite easily down through the tubing. Another good reason for choosing the funnel technique was that it avoided tilting the gearbox - to accurately re-fill, the car needs to be on a flat, level surface. If you use front ramps or you do it on a slope, you end up either putting too little oil in, or too much. So, you'd need to give that some thought, I'd say."

Thanks for the tips.
Originally I planned to refill the gearboxe from the underneath of the car with a hand pump of 1.5L. But the idea of refelling from the top seems to be better because the car doesn't need to be on ramp to have access to te filling hole.

"Personally, I'd also advise that you replace the filler and drain plugs with new ones, or at the very least apply some high-temperature thread sealant on them when refitting them, as you definitely need to avoid getting leaks. They're tapered threads. However, if you were unlucky you could still get leaks. The two plugs in question can be ordered from your local VW dealer; they're inexpensive. I'd also urge you to borrow or otherwise acquire a short, adjustable torque wrench, so that you can properly tighten both of these plugs. Offhand, I can't recall the official torque values but will be able to look them up for you if necessary."

Hmm strange. On the official VW's PDF for the PED gearbox no order for the replacement of the filler and drain plug.
Yeah it's what I said earlier on this message, I bought a torque wrench to properly tight the two bolts at 30Nm (both are hexa ones).

[veteran]

I myself have a constant and very slow oil leak from underneath my Polo. Over the last few years I've tried to confirm or not whether the lost oil, seen as a month-on-month growing small puddle on the engine/gearbox's bottom cover, has been coming from that gearbox drainplug, but I've not been successful in that. I've found it impossible to tell whether the lost oil - manifesting itself by eventually finding its way to the lowest external point on the gearbox, below the drainplug - is engine oil or gearbox oil, as both oils are of similar hue and viscocity. In my case, the leak may have existed from new, before I ever bought the car, but if not I myself may have caused it by 'unsealing' the gearbox.

So this is why I'm particularly mentioning the 'sealed for life' official description of the gearbox and you needing to be careful that, especially when re-fastening the gearbox drainplug, you don't subsequently end up with a leak. You won't want to do this job twice over! Accordingly, I'd advise that, once you've removed as much existing gearbox oil as possible, at the very least, you clean and dry off the threads in both the gearbox drain hole and the drainplug and then apply a small bead of hardening thread-sealant to them both, before reinsertion and tightening. You may then need to leave the sealant for a few hours to set. With these threads being tapered as well, that should then ensure that no leaking takes place from the drainplug subsequently. After doing that you can then start the refilling.

The problem you have with this, however, is that if you intend doing the refilling from 'up top' and with the car standing on a level surface (also with you using a suitable funnel/container in the engine compartment), you will somehow need to at least partly refill the gearbox before you can move the car using the engine. But whilst you can access the filler plug from up top, you cannot also access the drainplug from the same position; access to the drainplug is possible only from underneath the vehicle. Do you see what I mean? Unlike with me, you might have an alternative methodology that's feasible (such as using four axle stands, with the car remaining on a suitable flat surface throughout). In the end, you yourself might decide to simply do all the refiliing from underneath the car. Unless you're using a pit, say, working entirely underneath a car that's propped up on axle stands would be a personal safety issue.