CANBUS / RCD200 / Connects2 CAN02 Query..

[aristonowl]

Morning Chaps -

Righty.
A quick one.

I have a Pioneer AVH3200BT headunit.. connected it in, all lovely.
snag is - if i dont drive the car for a week - the battery dies because the unit is connected to a permanent +12V power source. The "good old RCD200" (yuk puke retch.. but at least it playes MP3 on CD) doesnt seem to have this.

So - some research on the t'interweb later - shows that RCD200 is a CANBUS aware headunit, and receives the Ignition/ACC signal as a data packet not as a voltage signal.. which is what the Pioneer wants.

typical.

So.. to fix this - ive ordered a Connects2 CAN02 device. Thing is, im not entirely sure where it actually GOES. (lol.. noobs, eh?).

So - a few sleeps and mulling the idea over and over for a few nights later.. then I somehow dimly remember that the quadlock wiring diagram that i saw aaaages ago seemed to mention CANBUS cables on the pins.

Does this mean that I connect the CANBUS HI and CANBUS LO cables to these pins, hook up the simulated IGNITION/ACC ON signal from the CAN02 dongle to the ACC cable of the Pioneer, and smile as my smugness gradually bathes the planet in a warm, pink-orange glow?

Or, will this unleash an army of doom-storming squirrels into the world, stomping on any unsuspecting CANBUS noob that they see (and maybe even take the opportunity to bury some nuts - Doom Storming Squirrels dont get out much, government cut backs and age of austerity and all that).


Nuts.
Bury.
Squirrel.
CANBUS.
Ignition.
Auto Sequence Start, Moon Landings and all that...
Help!



-Si

[blazeguarder]

Is this the CTSVW002? It's basically meant to fit between the quadlock plug on the wiring loom and the new stereo. It's got a quadlock connector on one end, ISO connectors on the other and a box of wizardry in the middle, which converts the CAN wires into normal wires. This gives you an ignition live, speed pulse, illumination etc. It's completely plug and play, apparently.

Unfortunately, it would appear that this one doesn't work on the 9N3. I've got one (CTSVW002 is the part number, is yours the same?) and tried to test fit my new Pioneer head unit the other week. The unit wasn't getting power. On inspection, the quadlock plug has a pin called SAFE, which is apparently a constant 12V. The CTSVW002 doesn't have a corresponding pin for this, and so doesn't seem to work. I've ordered the CTAVGCAN001 instead to see if that makes any difference, but it's remarkably hard to get hold of and I haven't received it yet.

Hope this helps, if yours works could you please post up which one it is? Cheers

[aristonowl]

hi blaze -

Is this the CTSVW002? It's basically meant to fit between the quadlock plug on the wiring loom and the new stereo.

no - This is the Connects2 CAN02.
http://www.connects2.co.uk/c2search.aspx?catID=66

(they might be resellers, as it seems to be labelled part 032.1010 from rta-mobile.com physically on the box.
Basically, after reading some forums, the Connects2 website reckons that the CAN01 part would work on their website.
However, the post went on to say that in most peoples experience, it DIDNT work. This was (apparently) because for CANBUS devices to work they need to not only interpret the CANBUS signal, but also respond to say they heard it otherwise the CANBUS systems stops talking to it - This is what CAN02 part does.

(again, apparently).

It's got a quadlock connector on one end, ISO connectors on the other and a box of wizardry in the middle, which converts the CAN wires into normal wires. This gives you an ignition live, speed pulse, illumination etc. It's completely plug and play, apparently.

Well, here is where im puzzled. This box has got a 10-wire output connector which I assume is what this box of tricks outputs as a result of CANBUS interpretation. The connector looks like a PC's ATX Motherboard power connector. (hope that doesnt sound too geeky hehe). So this bit I think i understand : I "just" need to connect the wire to my headunit in order to get the analogue signalling that it is expecting for IGNITION-ON and stuff like that.

Whats puzzling me, is the input part of it. Its a 6-pin (3x2) female socket. There isnt a cable supplied for it, I just have the box of tricks and the 10-pin (5x2) output cable with all the analogue out's (ACC, ILL, CANHI, CANLO, etc)

So where do I get the inputs from? *puzzlement* *baffled*.. no instructions, just a diagram explaining what the outputs are - which is largely pointless since all the cables are labelled clearly anyway, but there is nowhere anywhere on the internet that I have seen that actually SHOWS how to put one of these in an what to connect the thing to.

Odd eh?

Unfortunately, it would appear that this one doesn't work on the 9N3.

Well, im sort of cheating here. Up until about 3 weeks ago, i did have a Polo 9N3. My company car has been changed, and now I have a Golf Mk5. Id still have the same problems though. In the 9N3, I got the headunit working by ignoring the CANBUS aspect altogether, and just connecting it to permanent +12V. Snag was, if I didnt drive the car at least every 3-4 days, (which I usually do) the battery would run flat. So, this CANBUS adaptor was my attempt at gracefully sorting this out.

I've got one (CTSVW002 is the part number, is yours the same?)

no, dont think so - think it tries to achieve the same thing though.

tried to test fit my new Pioneer head unit the other week. The unit wasn't getting power. On inspection, the quadlock plug has a pin called SAFE, which is apparently a constant 12V. The CTSVW002 doesn't have a corresponding pin for this, and so doesn't seem to work. I've ordered the CTAVGCAN001 instead to see if that makes any difference, but it's remarkably hard to get hold of and I haven't received it yet.

I wonder if you came across this issue:

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/347171/2493023.aspx (Check out Thu, May 20 2010 4:24 PM , from "Peplow")
.. which is why i opted for CAN02.

Hope this helps, if yours works could you please post up which one it is? Cheers

will do - even though its a golf now - i expect the main parts should still apply..

thanks for the reply chap - will keep everyone posted!
-s.

[blazeguarder]

Can-bus is quite literally ruining my life...

I've spent far too much time looking this stuff up on google today, it appears that the CTSVW002 works on Golfs... and it's supposed to work on Polo's as well. Except it doesn't work on mine

I also gave Connects2 a call, at £1 a minute, to find out the story. Apparently CAN-01 uses an older configuration or something that can't understand the radio time out (which keeps the radio on until after you remove the key) and it also doesn't understand illumination, in my case at least. I was told to try the CTSVW003 which gave illumination as well, but still had the time out problem.

I think I've solved the radio time out problem though. If you connect the ACC wire (red) from your headunit harness to pin 5 of the ISO connector A
(diagram: http://web.onetel.net.uk/~uncletony/in_car.htm) then the headunit stays on until the key is removed. This is the power output to the original aerial amplifier so it works off a switched live. Mine also resets itself when I turn the engine on... bit annoying but I suppose the stock one does it and I don't really mind lol.

I don't know anything about CAN-02, but CAN-01 has a box with two connectors, on on each side. The input and output wires go into ONE side of the box, and the other can be used for a stalk interface I believe.

Maybe some of this is useful to you?

[aristonowl]

Can-bus is quite literally ruining my life...

tell me about it. Near zero documentation, and i just dont understand why aftermarket headunits dont talk CANBUS (and have selectable flavours of them, as different manufactures use slightly different signalling apparently).

CANBUS - great idea, horrible stuff to play with. its all black art. hateful stuff. so yes, its ruining our lives. lets set up a support group, i dunno, CANBUS Anonymous.

"Hello, my name's Simon. Ive been playing around with CANBUS wiring, Its been an addiction i need to break. Ive spent 50 quid on adapters, and researching time, and now my family life is suffering, ive not been eating properly,all i think about is how i am going to connect to it, and its never going to stop.. i realise this now. please help me"

(applause from fellow sufferers) "Well done Simon, admiting you have a problem is the first step.." (etc etc)

I've spent far too much time looking this stuff up on google today, it appears that the CTSVW002 works on Golfs... and it's supposed to work on Polo's as well. Except it doesn't work on mine

well, apparently not on all Golfs either, for the reasons you paid a million quid per minute on the phone for.
Youd have thought theyd document their products better, eh? Thank god for these forums, because I think the amateur enthusiasts would be totally stuffed if not. it shouldnt be this hard to fit an aftermarket device.

I also gave Connects2 a call, at £1 a minute, to find out the story. Apparently CAN-01 uses an older configuration or something that can't understand the radio time out (which keeps the radio on until after you remove the key) and it also doesn't understand illumination, in my case at least. I was told to try the CTSVW003 which gave illumination as well, but still had the time out problem.

yeh, this is what the golf forums i quoted in my last post seemed to be saying. good job really, because i selected CAN02 because of it.. and as an added tasty snack, its cheaper than CAN01 too.. get in!

Oddly, the Connects2 thing arrived in Connects2 packaging, but the actual device is something else - a german manufacturer. *shrug* (connects2 must be a reseller then..) anyway..

I think I've solved the radio time out problem though. If you connect the ACC wire (red) from your headunit harness to pin 5 of the ISO connector A
(diagram: http://web.onetel.net.uk/~uncletony/in_car.htm) then the headunit stays on until the key is removed.

nifty. might give that a go if Plan-A fails. Plan-A is to connect CAN02 to CANBUS, and then use the pinouts from the CANBUS adapter to provide a "real" analog voltage for my AVH3200BT HU to connect to.

This probably sounds like a very rubbish thing to do - but Ive noticed that you can wedge the cables together in the quadlock/iso connectors by using coctail sticks. Its as solid as you like as long as you dont really give the cables a serious tug. Easily enough to withstand car vibration, plus (for me anyway..) theres another bonus of being able to take it all out and replace OEM stuff back in when it comes to handing the car in. (as i found out when i handed my Polo 9N3 in.. replacing the OEM HU was a cinch).

This is the power output to the original aerial amplifier so it works off a switched live.

sounds like i could have gotten away without having to use the CANBUS adapter then.. hmm...

Mine also resets itself when I turn the engine on... bit annoying but I suppose the stock one does it and I don't really mind lol.

ah. now this would be a problem for me - well, depending on how "hard" the reset was. If power is cut to the AVH3200BT, then it goes to factory default mode which , annoyingly, means that when it switches on, it goes into Demo mode, with distracting video and everything. Plus, if I have used the AutoEQ mode (auto sets the graphic EQ based on the cars acoustic response to white noise impulses) these are lost too. It seems these settings are not kept in a Flash RAM (like a USB memory stick does). Bit of an oversight, I thought. Dont know why manufacturers dont give some proper thought to how the device is going to be used or installed.

I don't know anything about CAN-02, but CAN-01 has a box with two connectors, on on each side.

Same with Connects2 CAN02. 5x2 connector (with wires) on one side, and a 3x2 connector (with no wires) on the other, Am puzzled what im supposed to do with he 3x2 connector. hmm...

The input and output wires go into ONE side of the box, and the other can be used for a stalk interface I believe.

OMG. hang on a sec. Dammit! why didnt I think of this?
this would neatly explain why there was no cable/connector supplied for the 3x2, and only for the 5x2.. the 3x2 is another INPUT!!!! wwwhhyyyyyyy didnt I think of this?? CANBUS is a *BUS* - so it must be as long as it hears CANBUS signalling from *somewhere* then it must be able to act on the CANBUS instructions and set the analog wires high.

So... "all i need to do" is to jam the CANHI and CANLO wires into the equivalent wires on the ISO (or quadlock) connector, and then i should have analog outs...

*cue evil genius laugh*

didnt think that the 3x2 was just another input/output... heh.. nice one Blaze.. i think you might be onto something here. I'll report back and let everyone now how it goes..

Maybe some of this is useful to you?

it just might be... it just might be... top effort, chap!

-Si

[aristonowl]

DONE IT!

yes yes yes yes!

dammit, its so HARD , especially with no documentation.. or at least very very VERY dispersed documentation.

right.
heres the lowdown - the bit that i wish i found documented:

to connect an aftermarket non-canbus headunit (ie: one that needs a data signal from your car to turn on/off etc):

1) get a CANBUS adapter - I got Connects2 CAN02 to work. do NOT get CAN01, you car will not recognise it

Wiring information :

you'll be playing around with the QUADLOCK connector. This is the big fat plastic plug that you will have a wiring harness to convert it into an ISO connector that your new headunit can actually use.

The BACK of the QUADLOCK (ie: the "car" side, not the "headunit" side) is where you need to connect your CANBUS adapter. This is the wiring information (and the bit that took me ages to research)..

Permanent +12V = RED/YELLOW
Ground/Negative = BROWN
CANBUS HI = ORANGE / PURPLE
CANBUS LO = ORANGE / BROWN

2) on the CAN02 adapter - connect permenent +12V and ground to the corresponding wires on the 5x2 10-pin connector (you'll need to strip a liiiiitle bit of wire here to expose the copper cable. you will find the +12V and ground wires at the back of your QUADLOCK connector (the bit that normally plugs into your VW branded headunit.

The CAN02 adapter needs +12V and Ground to power the unit otherwise nothing happens (heheh - i found this out as i was working on it.. there is no documentation at all with the CAN02).

On the CAN02, there are 2 connectors, a 5x2 and a 3x2. Ignore 3x2, this must be for something like a steering wheel controlling unit or something. either way - not interested in it for this topic.

Once +12V and GND are connected to CAN02, connect up the CANBUS HI and CANBUS LO the corresponding wires on the CAN02 (again, these cables are labelled, and are also on the 5x2 wiring "block").

Once your Connects2 CAN02 has power, and can hear CANBUS data, it will then set the other wires (ignition ON, etc etc) high (ie: switch them on) when CANBUS tells them to, just like your old poxy VM branded radio did (in my case, RCD300.. yuk puke).

now i just have to stuff these wires back in to this horrible mess ive created

oh - by the way - i didnt do any soldering or cutting of any wires, i used a plastic terminal block to connect wires together nicely. no twisted cable ends here.

and - dont laugh.. i used cocktail sticks ( i said DONT LAUGH heheh) to wedge the +12V, GND , CANBUS HI and CANBUS LO wires in proper tight (cannot solder, i have to make sure this is 100% perfectly reversible, its a company car). i reckon its safe enough, but i think a pro-intaller would just shake his head at this "cowboy" job hehehe... but it works, does what i want.. happy days!

now im just wondering whether to connect the Rear 2 speakers into a hafler-circuit... hmm..... should i.. shoudnt i... should i.. shouldnt i..... hmmm....

btw: this was all done on a 2006 Golf Mk5, but im pretty confident this would also work on a Polo 9N3 too.. you just need to know the canbus wire colours.

oh -as a useful tip - the CANBUS wires are the "odd man out" wires - ie: theyre different from the other wires at the back of the QUADLOCK .. theyre really thin.. a bit like the wires you get in ethernet cable or phone jacks (8P8C/RJ45 and RJ11 cables).

anyway - i hope this helps.
Ive taken a photo of it, but any ideas where I should host it, so its here forever as a reference for other people? all this is the sharp end of 2 weeks solid research... might help someone else out!

-si

[JamieG172]

All very interesting, glad it worked out for you, and very glad I didn't have such problems when I replaced the OEM HU from my 9n with a single din face off unit from Sony!

As far as image hosting is concerned, I've always used PICASA, the free image hosting service from google. can't go wrong really. Pretty simple to use. Hope this helps

[aristonowl]

All very interesting, glad it worked out for you, and very glad I didn't have such problems when I replaced the OEM HU from my 9n with a single din face off unit from Sony!

well, when i put the HU in the 9N3, I didnt have these problems either, but then I did have to connect the HU to a permanent +12V , meaning that if i didnt drive the car within 3-4 days, the battery would be flat. I could have done the same thing with the Golf, but this time I was determined to solve that problem, and glad to say, all the hassle (and it was epic hassle, for me anyway) was worth it - the unit turns off when the key is removed from the ignition,and turns on when the key is in ACC position .. yay!


Picasa.. good idea. actually, thinking of this, i think i might have a twitpic account - i'll use that.
good thinking , batman!

-s.

[aristonowl]

Here are the installation pictures of the Connects2 CAN02 device:

This shows the connection from the Connects2 CAN02 device to a terminal block , and onto the wiring harness


This shows the back of the QUADLOCK connector. CANBUS HI = ORANGE/PURPLE , CANBUS LO = ORANGE/BROWN.
The CAN02 device also needs connection to a permanent +12V and GND (again, you can get this at the back of the QUADLOCK connector). You can see the cocktail sticks wedging the connections into the QUADLOCK for the power and CANBUS connections. Normally, I wouldnt do this, but since I am "modifying" a company car, I need to make sure I can just rip out all the wires and leave the car exactly as it originally was, OEM kit and everything - so I cant do "permanent" installations. I have found from experience this is quite safe, a little heath-robinson, but if done carefully, it will resist vibration , and wont come out




And finally , this picture shows a close up of the QUADLOCK conenctor, "car" side (ie: not headunit side). This is the wiring from the car to the headunit. Your ISO-to-QUADLOCK harness connects to this. The ISO wiring doesnt have any CANBUS connections, so you need to connect to it at the back of the QUADLOCK connector itself.

Here, I have used decent quality audio cable (the voltages arent very high), good audio cable from Halfords was used here. And you can see my.. ahem.. cocktail sticks to ensure the connection stays.




Well, I hope this is useful to anyone else trying to do this. Any questions, just let me know!
-si.

[aristonowl]

not sure the pictures posted ok. here are the URLS again:

http://twitpic.com/41ybba

http://twitpic.com/41y95z

http://twitpic.com/41y71h

[blazeguarder]

Good to hear you sorted it out man. I've got mine working as well. Used the Connects2 CTSVW003 adapter and spliced the red ACC wire from the headunit to the antenna power in the adapter loom.

It's like we're can-bus titans or something!

[aristonowl]

I've got mine working as well. Used the Connects2 CTSVW003 adapter and spliced the red ACC wire from the headunit to the antenna power in the adapter loom.

hm. wonder if you needed the CTSVW003 at all then? mind you - i noticed something spooky i wasnt expecting. When my CAN02 switches the HU on/off (for some reason, just that makes me smile.. probably because it was hard won hehe) it remembers the settings for the AutoEQ, time, colour preferences, etc.. which is even better than i had expected. The whole thing, for me, was an anti-battery-drain thing. lovely.

It's like we're can-bus titans or something!

hear our ROAR!!!!! hehehehehehehehe!!!
top effort, geezer! may your sounds be totally rockin' !

[Staffy12]

Hi all,

Newbie here from Perth Australia.

I have a 2007 Polo GTI, I'm trying to install a new headunit. I have the connects 2 iso adaptor. But can someone tell me pleeeeeeeaaaase, on the VW Can-Bus wiring loom, what wire (and colour) is the IGNITION or switchable 12v?

Tested my Alpine 530 HU, sounds fab but it stays on when i turn the ignition off! I want this thing to turn off when I take the key out.

Please help

Cheers.

[TehSniper]

http://www.uk-polos.net/view ... 43&t=57607

Check this thread out, should help, I've had mine wired up like this and no issues at all