Timing tool VAS 611007

[Le_Combattant]

Hello fox,

Because the next year I'm thinking to change my timing belt, I was reading my PDF about the procedure to checking vavle timing with the special tool VAS 611007.

Procedure is straight forward but I miss something.

Here an official VW video with the tool and procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buCx-fN7xRQ

At 8:00 min they install the tool and make engine two turn of crankshaft before lock it in TDC position.
Actual reading on the computer are out of tolerance and engine need a proper timing.

Since here ok.

They untight bot camshaft bolt and set both camshaft sensor to 0°.
Tight back both camshaft bolt.

Ok.

Now, again two turns of crankshaft to determinate timing correction angle (to see how far the values are from factory requirement).

In the exemple we have (after two turns):

+3.5° on the inlet side (nominal is +0.5°) so adjustment need to be -3.0°
-1.0° on the exhaust side (nominal is +1.5°) so adjustment need to be +2.5°

No issue here.

It's after that I'm confused:

At 13:48 min they said 'set the correction angle as calculated"

And on the screen we see that:

Capture.PNG (448.39 KiB) Viewed 4766 times

-3.0° for the inlet side
+2.5° for the exhaust side
So they applied the corrected angle.

But on the video they said nominal is +0.5° for inlet and +1.5° for the exhaust.

So if I make a quick calculation we have for inltet side a correction of -6.5° (from +3.5° to -3.0°) and for exhaust a correction of +3.5° (from -1.0° to 2.5°).

But it seems I miss something of maybe they take the 0° calibration as they did at 10:09 min to determinate the correction angle value.
So the 0° is the reference.

Let me now.

[2226]

The initial zero calibration seems to take out the extra you have in your calculation.
So, yes, over the total procedure the degrees add up to what you have, but there are 2 adjustments done.

Can you rent this thing? Last I checked this tool was super expensive.
There was topic here somewhere that suggested no need for the tool if you don't undo the sprockets when doing the belt. I believe the belt replacement procedure says to undo the sprockets, but that'll throw calibration out. Use a locking tool to keep them steady.
I suppose over time these cams do get out of sync because of the phasers.

Is this applicable to a 1.2tsi CJZD which has only 1 cam phaser? The 1.4tsi, etc, have 2.

I'm looking at this and going: "should've stuck with the old car"

[2226]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mVPRXTfxHI

See comment from bennito3392 in that video.
"...For the first engines there were two variants of timing adjustment, 1. with 007 and 2. quick, simple variant with a locking tool. So always check the repair thread to see if you just need to unplug instead of having to use 007"

[Le_Combattant]

The initial zero calibration seems to take out the extra you have in your calculation.
So, yes, over the total procedure the degrees add up to what you have, but there are 2 adjustments done.

Can you rent this thing? Last I checked this tool was super expensive.
There was topic here somewhere that suggested no need for the tool if you don't undo the sprockets when doing the belt. I believe the belt replacement procedure says to undo the sprockets, but that'll throw calibration out. Use a locking tool to keep them steady.
I suppose over time these cams do get out of sync because of the phasers.

Is this applicable to a 1.2tsi CJZD which has only 1 cam phaser? The 1.4tsi, etc, have 2.

I'm looking at this and going: "should've stuck with the old car"

You mean the initial calibration when the tool is installed I suppose (with the two camshaft bolt untight) ?
So it means after you calculated the correction angle value, you juste have to untight camshaft bolt, set the values previously calculated, torque everything and make two turn of crankshaft to double check if you are within the spec.

In my official workshop manual they ask to remove bolt on both camshaft and since the pulley are just holding in place with the bolt and not with like a pin of a mechanical lock, if you untight bolt you can have an issue with the timing.
Or timing check is required because over time a miss alignement can occure due to the fact both pulley are just hold by the pressure of the bolt and not with a mecahinal lock (pin or something equivalent).

EDIT: valve timing is mandatory in the timing belt replacement.

Procedure appears after belt installation;

1.PNG (175.43 KiB) Viewed 4723 times

I think it's applicable to all EA211 engine.

[ciclo]

viewtopic.php?t=78797

If you loosen them and only use the locking tools you will have a vehicle within tolerances, everything is correct up to this point, but it will be a worse engine than the factory one, you can be completely sure.

DO NOT LOOSEN THEM, only in case of leaks or major damage, and then it will be necessary to use tool 007.

In the following generations of these engines, with these adjustments, the sensors are associated with the individual/specific SW of each engine. That is, the sensors are not interchangeable. Even identical camshafts machined 'with the best current technologies' have small differences that make them individual and require an INDIVIDUAL engine SW for them to work perfectly (according to specifications).

[Le_Combattant]

viewtopic.php?t=78797

If you loosen them and only use the locking tools you will have a vehicle within tolerances, everything is correct up to this point, but it will be a worse engine than the factory one, you can be completely sure.

DO NOT LOOSEN THEM, only in case of leaks or major damage, and then it will be necessary to use tool 007.

In the following generations of these engines, with these adjustments, the sensors are associated with the individual/specific SW of each engine. That is, the sensors are not interchangeable. Even identical camshafts machined 'with the best current technologies' have small differences that make them individual and require an INDIVIDUAL engine SW for them to work perfectly (according to specifications).

So the best way is to not unbolt both pulley on the camshaft, lock camshaft on gearbox side and after perform your timing belt replacement.
Of course, you have to be TDC.

Concerning tolerances, CJZC engine have the following ones:


Inlet camshaft: -1.5° ±1.5°
Exhaust camshaft: +1.0° ±1.5°

[2226]

You'd have quite a bit more problems if one of those bolts were loose and allowed sprocket to move.
Your belt would be chewed up from the teeth being misaligned.

You could lock the EA211 like this:

EA211-Timing-Special-Tool.jpg (207.38 KiB) Viewed 4712 times

Only intake phaser on the CJZD.
Think it looks like this:

cjzd-belt.jpg (176.8 KiB) Viewed 4712 times

That exhaust cam bolt is gonna be in there with some serious Loctite.
VW saving 0.15 euro on the woodruff key.
The rest looks like a regular timing belt setup. The worst part it not shown in the picture is the engine mount being in the way.

I honestly don't think you need to unbolt them.
Well, maybe if you feeling timing is off and engine is throwing all sort of cam codes then do it and definitely use the tool.
If that belt looks horrible in there, then yes undo and reset alignment.
But if the engine is strong and it's not detecting any valve timing issues or feedback then why unbolt?

I have a friend who has a old friend who runs one of the more well-known VW/Audi tuning shops here.
He is bound to have this tool. Wonder if he'd do an "experiment" and check how far out these cams are after 90,000km.
I won't take it to a dealership to check even if they have the tool.

[2226]

In the following generations of these engines, with these adjustments, the sensors are associated with the individual/specific SW of each engine. That is, the sensors are not interchangeable. Even identical camshafts machined 'with the best current technologies' have small differences that make them individual and require an INDIVIDUAL engine SW for them to work perfectly (according to specifications).

I guess I'm going back in time then with my next vehicle (if there is one).
This is all getting out of hand.

[Le_Combattant]

You'd have quite a bit more problems if one of those bolts were loose and allowed sprocket to move.
Your belt would be chewed up from the teeth being misaligned.

You could lock the EA211 like this:

EA211-Timing-Special-Tool.jpg


Only intake phaser on the CJZD.
Think it looks like this:

cjzd-belt.jpg



That exhaust cam bolt is gonna be in there with some serious Loctite.
VW saving 0.15 euro on the woodruff key.
The rest looks like a regular timing belt setup. The worst part it not shown in the picture is the engine mount being in the way.

I honestly don't think you need to unbolt them.
Well, maybe if you feeling timing is off and engine is throwing all sort of cam codes then do it and definitely use the tool.
If that belt looks horrible in there, then yes undo and reset alignment.
But if the engine is strong and it's not detecting any valve timing issues or feedback then why unbolt?

I have a friend who has a old friend who runs one of the more well-known VW/Audi tuning shops here.
He is bound to have this tool. Wonder if he'd do an "experiment" and check how far out these cams are after 90,000km.
I won't take it to a dealership to check even if they have the tool.

Yes you can lock camshaft on both side with the tool you share between the pulley, and with a tool on camshaft on gearbox side.
But if you don't touch to the bolt on camshaft, no timing check is needed.

But because I'm curious, I would like to know if timing if moving over time due to wear etc...To see how much out of tolerance can be my engine.

Next time I will ask my dealership to just know if they have the tool.

[Le_Combattant]

Okey so now, I'm lost.

On SuperEtka, I found official VW Workshop manual for timing belt replacement according to my VIN.

And guess what ? No need of the 3 millions euros tools from VW to check valve timing.

[RUM4MO]

That is interesting, I had assumed that VW Group had introduced that tool in response to workshop techs not being able to get a 100% success rate when replacing these belts, ie but using this tool, the job could be "de-skilled" and get better or constant good results every time.

I have read online about many people ended up with a very nasty car after getting a timing belt replaced - assumed to be due to a slight/small error in timing, in fact some VW Group Indie workshops suggest avoiding using any workshops that do not have that "tool kit" if needing a new timing belt on ANY EA211 engine, regardless of age.

One side issue with getting an EA211 engine timing belt replaced in a a workshop AND them using that tool kit to achieve timing as good as it was before the timing belt change, seems to be that the labour cost in hours is much more.

I'm asking, was that official workshop manual issue date "newer" than when that tool became available, or was it an earlier date, I think that I read that that new tool kit MUST be used on newer 1.0TSI EA211 engines, but is very useful to be used on older 1.4TSI and 1,2TSI EA211. I'm guessing that that VAS 611007 tool kit was launched almost a year ago.

[Le_Combattant]

That is interesting, I had assumed that VW Group had introduced that tool in response to workshop techs not being able to get a 100% success rate when replacing these belts, ie but using this tool, the job could be "de-skilled" and get better or constant good results every time.

I have read online about many people ended up with a very nasty car after getting a timing belt replaced - assumed to be due to a slight/small error in timing, in fact some VW Group Indie workshops suggest avoiding using any workshops that do not have that "tool kit" if needing a new timing belt on ANY EA211 engine, regardless of age.

One side issue with getting an EA211 engine timing belt replaced in a a workshop AND them using that tool kit to achieve timing as good as it was before the timing belt change, seems to be that the labour cost in hours is much more.

I'm asking, was that official workshop manual issue date "newer" than when that tool became available, or was it an earlier date, I think that I read that that new tool kit MUST be used on newer 1.0TSI EA211 engines, but is very useful to be used on older 1.4TSI and 1,2TSI EA211. I'm guessing that that VAS 611007 tool kit was launched almost a year ago.

Okey so my bad fox, I did a mistake.

I've just figured it out.
On Erwin, I took two PDFs, one for the petrol engines dedicated to the Polo ONLY, the 1.2 TSI available in two level power (90/110) CJZC and CJZD.
The second concerns the entire EA211 family, Golf, Touran...etc. So I think they've incorporated the strictest method with the VAS 611007.

And indeed, in the PDF dedicated solely to my car (and yours with CJZC and CJZD), the VAS is not required. Blocking with the T10494 tool is enough.

[2226]

Possible to share those PDFs?
Not sure if I have them already.

[Le_Combattant]

Possible to share those PDFs?
Not sure if I have them already.

Yeah sure, how I can send you this one ?

[2226]

Have sent you PM.