Battery Monitor Unit - J367 Adaptation

[JiSingh1]

Hi all,

1.0TSI Polo 6C.

Essentially I have the following fault code in the system at times, and I feel like my steering has gone heavier to an extent compared to how it used to be :

U141100: Battery Terminal Recognition - Open Circuit (Intermittent/Stored).

My Research & findings so far suggest the Heavy Steering is a result of "Load Shedding" triggered by the U141100 code, but various fixes or possible causes.

I was looking into replacing the battery monitoring system on the negative ( 6C0 915 181 A ) and therefore i have a question regarding the battery monitoring system (J367) Adaptation.

I noted in the VW workshop manuals/wiring diagrams that it states: "After the installation of a new battery or a new battery monitor control unit, the battery monitor control unit must be adapted via the vehicle diagnostic tester".

Unfortunately that's all it says, and doesn't explain how or what I need to do, and the module is a slave of the gateway so doesn't have its own long coding or anything I believe.

Does anyone have an idea?

Thank you

[RUM4MO]

I asked this question on a VW forum, and its owner/moderator who is a partner in an Independent VAG repair workshop, and also a proper tech, assured me that when you replace the "lump" on the earth terminal it is "plug and play".

He has found that in some cases where the battery fails, it can be due to a failed/faulty BMU, so typically he will also replace that "lump" when replacing a failed battery, it seems that some VW Group models were worse than others in this respect, and Polo and its "cousins" are not one of them - I only found that out AFTER buying a new BMU which cost "quite a bit"!

I was only trying to improve the car's ability to keep the battery in "good condition" as I suspected that it was getting over charged - but that EFB battery lasted over 10 years 54,000miles, and I only replaced it with the next size up AGM battery because the car was now over 10 years old AND this AGM battery has been waiting to get fitted into my wife's car for too many years!! I still have not replaced the BMU but after having this bigger AGM battery (coded to the car correctly), fitted for a month or so and having witnessed the charging "characteristics" via a plug in DVM in the power socket, I really should get the new BMU fitted and see if anything changes in respect of the charging "characteristics" .

[JiSingh1]

I asked this question on a VW forum, and its owner/moderator who is a partner in an Independent VAG repair workshop, and also a proper tech, assured me that when you replace the "lump" on the earth terminal it is "plug and play".

He has found that in some cases where the battery fails, it can be due to a failed/faulty BMU, so typically he will also replace that "lump" when replacing a failed battery, it seems that some VW Group models were worse than others in this respect, and Polo and its "cousins" are not one of them - I only found that out AFTER buying a new BMU which cost "quite a bit"!

I was only trying to improve the car's ability to keep the battery in "good condition" as I suspected that it was getting over charged - but that EFB battery lasted over 10 years 54,000miles, and I only replaced it with the next size up AGM battery because the car was now over 10 years old AND this AGM battery has been waiting to get fitted into my wife's car for too many years!! I still have not replaced the BMU but after having this bigger AGM battery (coded to the car correctly), fitted for a month or so and having witnessed the charging "characteristics" via a plug in DVM in the power socket, I really should get the new BMU fitted and see if anything changes in respect of the charging "characteristics" .

Cheers pal.
So from your understanding it should be plug and play - hopefully it's the same with a used one, saves about £100, which I'd like to do as it's not worth much being a Cat S car

I was thinking of trying a new battery, EFB but I did do that about a year ago, albeit also a used one via a shop on eBay...

Today my symptoms were less bad, maybe as a result of cleaning the main engine ground up, so will monitor and see.

Actually - I think all it might be referring to in the workshop manual is adapting the J367 to the battery specifications as opposed to adapting the unit itself to the car, think that might be it and I just didn't realise ..

[iichel]

Yeah like RUM4MO said, it's plug and play, no calibration needed.

[RUM4MO]

I wonder if it would be beneficial to initiate the "new battery" process after replacing a BMS "lump" - ie change the serial number by one digit, I'll probably try that after I eventually get round to fitting the new BMS "lump" - but only after running the car with the BMS for maybe 7 days without making any changes, while monitoring the charging characteristics/behaviour via the 12V DC DVM plugged into the power socket.

Nothing to be lost by doing that.

[ciclo]

@JiSingh1.

In response to your PM: (thanks for contacting via PM)

There is no issue with installing an upgraded battery monitor. In fact, it's quite the opposite—it's an improvement.

Example: from 6C0 915 181 A to 6C0 915 181 D.

No coding in the Gateway (POLO 6C) is required if you are not replacing the battery. The factory-set values ​​in the adaptation channels are the correct ones for that/factory battery. The battery monitor is just a sensor.
Only if you change the battery—for example, from EFB to AGM, or if you install a new battery and/or with different specifications—is new coding necessary in the GW adaptation channels for proper management of the new hardware.

There is no harm in experimenting ; after all, the management system will take into account the SoH (State of Health) and SoC (State of Charge), as well as many other parameters specific to each vehicle and its individual usage.

[JiSingh1]

@JiSingh1.

In response to your PM: (thanks for contacting via PM)

There is no issue with installing an upgraded battery monitor. In fact, it's quite the opposite—it's an improvement.

Example: from 6C0 915 181 A to 6C0 915 181 D.

No coding in the Gateway (POLO 6C) is required if you are not replacing the battery. The factory-set values ​​in the adaptation channels are the correct ones for that/factory battery. The battery monitor is just a sensor.
Only if you change the battery—for example, from EFB to AGM, or if you install a new battery and/or with different specifications—is new coding necessary in the GW adaptation channels for proper management of the new hardware.

There is no harm in experimenting ; after all, the management system will take into account the SoH (State of Health) and SoC (State of Charge), as well as many other parameters specific to each vehicle and its individual usage.

Hi, thank you!

So I had a different battery fitted, with a bit different CCA and AH to factory. And I am fitting a used monitor, with a used battery.

So do I just change the AH and CCA and brand in the gateway when it's fitted, or not? Because I don't want to replace the monitor and say it's a new battery, since it's a used one but I have to make sure it knows what's fitted.

[Johntheo1]

On my 2019 and 2026 Polos, VCDS shows in Adaptation 10 that 4 paramaters can and might need changing on installing a NEW battery, the serial number will always require changing even if the other 3 parameters are the same as the old battery, you just change one digit, say, make the last 1 a 2. You are installing a USED battery so I wonder, assuming that you do change the serial number will the BMS think/assume that the installed battery is NEW and what effect this will have on the charging pattern. Keep a eye on the DVM.

IDE03256-MAS06105 Battery adaptation-Rated battery capacity 59 Ah
IDE03256-MAS06106 Battery adaptation-Battery technology EFB
IDE03256-MAS06107 Battery adaptation-Battery manufacturer JCB
IDE03256-MAS06108 Battery adaptation-Battery Serial Number 1111111111

[JiSingh1]

On my 2019 and 2026 Polos, VCDS shows in Adaptation 10 that 4 paramaters can and might need changing on installing a NEW battery, the serial number will always require changing even if the other 3 parameters are the same as the old battery, you just change one digit, say, make the last 1 a 2. You are installing a USED battery so I wonder, assuming that you do change the serial number will the BMS think/assume that the installed battery is NEW and what effect this will have on the charging pattern. Keep a eye on the DVM.

IDE03256-MAS06105 Battery adaptation-Rated battery capacity 59 Ah
IDE03256-MAS06106 Battery adaptation-Battery technology EFB
IDE03256-MAS06107 Battery adaptation-Battery manufacturer JCB
IDE03256-MAS06108 Battery adaptation-Battery Serial Number 1111111111

Yeah I've got vcds, OBDeleven & a thinkscan so will check with one of them.

I guess I should have worded it better though, how do I tell my replacement used BMS, about the battery fitted in my car already, since I am not putting a new one in. Essentially your point 2.

Essentially coding the BMS to the battery. If I change the details for:
Rated battery
Manufacturer
Battery technology

Will this be enough or even if I say it's a new battery by changing the serial number, will this adapt and just use the state of health and stuff it detects as opposed to assuming it is new.

[Johntheo1]

If you are referring to replacing the BMU (battery monitoring unit, J367 monitor), then my understanding is that this "only" measures the energy in/out of the battery and that its the BMS (battery management system) that looks at the 4 adaptations?.

[ciclo]

It doesn't matter if the battery is from Mars or second-hand, simply enter the capacity, even if it varies by just 2 or 3 Ah, along with the type/model and manufacturer details.
Updating the serial number signals to the BMS that a different battery has been installed, you could even enter "666VAGHELL" if you wish.
The BMS will consistently perform all calculations with precision, based on the data it receives from the battery monitor/sensor J367, etc.

If the battery is from a manufacturer not included in the list provided during the coding process, ask an AI which three-letter code you should enter from those on the list, everything will work perfectly.

Be careful to select the correct battery type/technology. If the data is entered accurately, the BMS will manage the battery perfectly, otherwise, the installed battery could deteriorate rapidly (within 1 or 2 years).

[Johntheo1]

My almost 8 year old Polo with its original 59AH, EFB Battery shows IDE07681-MAS06086 Battery total charging throughput-Total re-charge 4228.4 Ah
IDE07681-MAS06087 Battery total charging throughput-Entire energy throughput 4413.8 Ah
If I change one number on the Battery Serial Number then the BMS should see this as a different battery, presumably the above two parameters will change to zero, will this have no effect on anything??.

[ciclo]

Yes, changing one digit of the serial number will reset the adaptation values in the BMS, but it will have a minor effect on your vehicle's alternator behavior.
When you modify the serial number via a diagnostic tool, the BMS registers a new battery. This action resets the internal aging counters, internal resistance estimations, and charging throughput statistics back to zero or baseline values.

If you are doing this temporarily while waiting a few days for a new battery to arrive, it is perfectly fine and will not harm the car's electronics, however, if you are doing this to try and "extend" the life of your current 8-year-old EFB battery, it is highly counterproductive. The battery is physically degraded after 4,400+ Ah of throughput, forcing the alternator to treat it like a brand-new battery will likely overheat the cells and hasten its final breakdown.

[Johntheo1]

So, also not a good idea to replace a failed battery with a used one permanently then.

You might have a look sometime at my "2019 Battery Adaptation" post in the MK10 etc Topics and comment on why I am seeing two battery adaptations.

[JiSingh1]

So, also not a good idea to replace a failed battery with a used one permanently then.

You might have a look sometime at my "2019 Battery Adaptation" post in the MK10 etc Topics and comment on why I am seeing two battery adaptations.

That is what I actually did, originally. Bought a used battery for £15 as opposed to the crazy costs of a new one, and just changed the serial number and other details.

I mean it's been working, but I have got a stop start error that crops up sometimes, unsure if this is linked to the battery, but that's the reason I've bought the new sensor, as it seems to be linked to that according to the fault codes I get.