http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4034975.stm
^^
interesting read.
Deek.
BBC article on VW's poor business performance
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carmadaaron
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No, it's because they're assuming that to grow have to go upmarket, forgetting that the upmarket models sell less than mainstream ones and that their brand doesn't carry enough cache to allow them to price themselves back to their current position. That plus, their destruction of VW's quality and durability brand values.
What's really scary about that article is the the fact that they've just committed to their current worksforce staffing and pay levels for the next seven years. That's appaling from the point of view of the international labour force. If you add in the growing demands from the EU itself for the German government to relinquish its legislatory protection of VW as a company that must be "German owned", I would not be suprised if VW (maybe the full VAG?) ceases to be independent by the end of the decade.
Take a look at the both the editorial and the comments here:
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000327020886/
^^
I had the wrong link here - changed it.
It's just typical of the US's reaction to the Jetta, and exemplifes that, having lost its quality edge, VW is in the process of loosing its design edge as well.
It's a real shame and I hate to see it happening, but it is happening.
Plus, if you've seen the renders of the new Honda Jazz (which steals the Polo's aesthetic), the VW value proposition is starting to look shakey even in the supermini segment and will definantely be shakey in a few year's time.
Just my 2p.
Deek.
What's really scary about that article is the the fact that they've just committed to their current worksforce staffing and pay levels for the next seven years. That's appaling from the point of view of the international labour force. If you add in the growing demands from the EU itself for the German government to relinquish its legislatory protection of VW as a company that must be "German owned", I would not be suprised if VW (maybe the full VAG?) ceases to be independent by the end of the decade.
Take a look at the both the editorial and the comments here:
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000327020886/
^^
I had the wrong link here - changed it.
It's just typical of the US's reaction to the Jetta, and exemplifes that, having lost its quality edge, VW is in the process of loosing its design edge as well.
It's a real shame and I hate to see it happening, but it is happening.
Plus, if you've seen the renders of the new Honda Jazz (which steals the Polo's aesthetic), the VW value proposition is starting to look shakey even in the supermini segment and will definantely be shakey in a few year's time.
Just my 2p.
Deek.
Last edited by dxg on Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Babe RuthLess
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It's a bit of shame really. Certainly over here all the competitors have caught up on the design aesthetic point of view. For example, Ford employed several of the Passat cabin design team to provide the new Focus and the current Mondeo. It shows - just look at the dials for an example.
Fair enough VW did counter by headhunting the last Focus' rear axle desginer for the MK5 Golf and have had great success with that.
But what they're failing to do is *differentiate* themselves. When their competitors offer the same (if not better) quality for a little less, then why go VW? It's get hard to continuw to be rational about the brand. Any future decisions to buy would be of the heart, not of the head, I guess.
Anyway, as a side note have a look at this:
http://www.autoblog.com/category/volkswagen/
for a good feel of the general problems VW is having in the States right now, outside of the enthusiast sector.
Deek.
Fair enough VW did counter by headhunting the last Focus' rear axle desginer for the MK5 Golf and have had great success with that.
But what they're failing to do is *differentiate* themselves. When their competitors offer the same (if not better) quality for a little less, then why go VW? It's get hard to continuw to be rational about the brand. Any future decisions to buy would be of the heart, not of the head, I guess.
Anyway, as a side note have a look at this:
http://www.autoblog.com/category/volkswagen/
for a good feel of the general problems VW is having in the States right now, outside of the enthusiast sector.
Deek.
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carmadaaron
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yeah, but polos have gone down a bit in the UK... but still is a bit more expensive than like a corsa/fiestaBabe RuthLess wrote:Volkswagen's drive upmarket has been a failure so far.
It's not so much the Phaeton and the Touareg, but rather the high price that VW's charging for its plain old models like the Polo and especially the Golf.
I agree with all the comments above, I'm sure I remember hearing a while back that VAG was planning to separate the business into two separate business areas, luxury and executive brands (Audi, Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini) and affordable/value brands (VW, Seat and Skoda). Obviously this has not happened with the Phaeton/Touareg, I mean if I had that much money to spend on a luxury car, would I really spend it on a VW? especially something that sounds like it from a Star Wars movie? (who on earth thinks up these names? at least the Golf and Polo was named after the sport but Phaeton?) I'd opt for an Audi at least, the cool sounding A8 of course!
I think they should return back to their roots, going back to basics, producing affordable reliable cars for the people, as in their name signifies (Volkswagen=People's Car).
Thats just my quids worth, any more and I'd be charging by the hour!
I think they should return back to their roots, going back to basics, producing affordable reliable cars for the people, as in their name signifies (Volkswagen=People's Car).
Thats just my quids worth, any more and I'd be charging by the hour!
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Babe RuthLess
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The Fox isn't the sort of VW car that Europeans are used to.
For a long time we've had basic, mainstream VWs that made up the company's HUGE Brazilian market share (about 50% in the mid-eighties, and about 40% until the late nineties). A legacy of that time is the fact that Brazil's best-selling car (by some margin) is the VW Gol - and it's been so since 1987.
The Fox is a bargain-basement car that's seriously overpriced, in Brazil at least. VW's ruinous strategy here: launch the Fox at the same (high) prices it used to charge for the Polo; move the Polo to the Golf's price bracket (yes, seriously, and they even made a booted Polo to "replace" the Bora, which now costs as much a 320i); move the Golf right into Passat, 3-series territory; and re-brand the Passat as a limousine for the very rich by dropping all versions except the Turbos and V6s and attaching ridiculous price tags. There are even armour-plated Passats these days.
New Passats are a rare sight in this country right now. Then again, so are new Golfs. I won't even mention the Phaeton and the Touareg - this last one probably sells better than the Passat these days, thanks to Brazil's massively unequal income distribution.
VW has long been obsessed with going upmarket and forgetting its core value: building strong, reliable cars that don't cost an arm and a leg. Another core VW value: you don't need to own a big car to have true quality - a big car is a bit of a waste, really.
VW stuck to those values for decades; proof of the 2nd core value is the fact that the Passat/Santana, in all its versions up until now, was always the biggest VW you could buy.
Problem is, it (and all its VW siblings) kept getting bigger, brasher and - most importantly - more expensive.
All cars from all market segments have grown bigger - hell, the drivers themselves got bigger.
VWs also kept getting more and more expensive, to the point where a Golf - the quitessential utilitarian car, if I ever saw one - has become an "aspirational" car. Go figure.
With Golfs and Polos priced the way they are, VW is sure to lose market share, profits and eventually its independence. In the early nineties it almost went to Toyota - Piëch and a booming Brazilian market saved their asses back then.
Now Piëch's strategy is the problem, Brazil is bust, Europe's getting affordable cars from other brands that are as good as VWs used to be, and the Americans might as well buy Honda Accords instead of Jettas - at least they'd be buying the original design.
Yes, VW is in deep trouble.
For a long time we've had basic, mainstream VWs that made up the company's HUGE Brazilian market share (about 50% in the mid-eighties, and about 40% until the late nineties). A legacy of that time is the fact that Brazil's best-selling car (by some margin) is the VW Gol - and it's been so since 1987.
The Fox is a bargain-basement car that's seriously overpriced, in Brazil at least. VW's ruinous strategy here: launch the Fox at the same (high) prices it used to charge for the Polo; move the Polo to the Golf's price bracket (yes, seriously, and they even made a booted Polo to "replace" the Bora, which now costs as much a 320i); move the Golf right into Passat, 3-series territory; and re-brand the Passat as a limousine for the very rich by dropping all versions except the Turbos and V6s and attaching ridiculous price tags. There are even armour-plated Passats these days.
New Passats are a rare sight in this country right now. Then again, so are new Golfs. I won't even mention the Phaeton and the Touareg - this last one probably sells better than the Passat these days, thanks to Brazil's massively unequal income distribution.
VW has long been obsessed with going upmarket and forgetting its core value: building strong, reliable cars that don't cost an arm and a leg. Another core VW value: you don't need to own a big car to have true quality - a big car is a bit of a waste, really.
VW stuck to those values for decades; proof of the 2nd core value is the fact that the Passat/Santana, in all its versions up until now, was always the biggest VW you could buy.
Problem is, it (and all its VW siblings) kept getting bigger, brasher and - most importantly - more expensive.
All cars from all market segments have grown bigger - hell, the drivers themselves got bigger.
VWs also kept getting more and more expensive, to the point where a Golf - the quitessential utilitarian car, if I ever saw one - has become an "aspirational" car.
Go figure.With Golfs and Polos priced the way they are, VW is sure to lose market share, profits and eventually its independence. In the early nineties it almost went to Toyota - Piëch and a booming Brazilian market saved their asses back then.
Now Piëch's strategy is the problem, Brazil is bust, Europe's getting affordable cars from other brands that are as good as VWs used to be, and the Americans might as well buy Honda Accords instead of Jettas - at least they'd be buying the original design.
Yes, VW is in deep trouble.
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carmadaaron
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Tahrey1043
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yep polo (and other vw) prices have gone down in this country, unfortunately from what i'm hearing, it's not the spec thats fallen, but the build quality and reliability.
take a look at my mk3 polo - it's got bugger all in it, in terms of "options", and it's got more than when i bought it. No internally adjustable mirrors. Barely servo'd brakes. The most basic black steel wheels. A minimum of curvy panels. No boot light, an rubbish interior light, and no headlamp warning tone. No split/fold rear seat, and fairly basic seat fabric all round. Radio was crud, and poor sound insulation does nothing for it. Suspension can be a mixture of harsh and squashy at the same time. Lackluster power output from the engine even considering the capacity, and that the injection is merely a token nod to emissions regs. No tacho, and a four speed box for a car sold thru the first half of the 1990s for heaven's sake... etc, etc.
BUT the damn thing refuses to die, even with a huge amount of abuse, and the vast majority of problems i've had with it are pretty much down to the regular 3rd-party component failure that any car might suffer, unless the makers were to produce every last part themselves. Certainly no major gearbox, engine, bodywork, steering or brake trouble (well... ok... the rear brakes had seized when i got it... but again that's more-or-less 3rd party stuff, the cylinders hadnt been changed in who knows how long. brake *lines* were still fine). I've accidentally demonstrated recently that the engine will tolerate running for several hundred miles with a chronically low oil level....
(plus, despite the low power output, the engine has enough spunk from it's more-or-less full-range torque to make up, particularly around the town settings it was designed for... the GT being even better in that regard........ and somehow it's oddly satisfying to drive, suspension/power/braking issues aside!)
It was expensive to buy in it's day, but someone did, even with that fairly poor spec, because they were buying into the reliability vw guaranteed with their slightly overpriced otherwise vanilla motor cars.
Shame that the pendulum's swinging the other way?
Oh yeah, and that the lastest polos seem to be reaching the size of the early Golfs, and the Golfs are... well.... just big!
(park a mk3 polo coupe by a 3-door mk1 golf, and even there you can see a telling comparison.. there's not much in it!)
Soapbox over....
(of course that was all based on no research other than the suspect general knowledge i've grazed so far... but, mud sticks?)
If I had the money now, for a Polo-class car, it actually would in all likelihood be on a Jazz or Yaris... maybe a new Panda, though I would have to strip the bugger right back to the metalwork (having the same/slightly worse performance figures as/than the 80s model, with about 40% more power on tap, is just unforgivable)
*traitorous talk i know*
take a look at my mk3 polo - it's got bugger all in it, in terms of "options", and it's got more than when i bought it. No internally adjustable mirrors. Barely servo'd brakes. The most basic black steel wheels. A minimum of curvy panels. No boot light, an rubbish interior light, and no headlamp warning tone. No split/fold rear seat, and fairly basic seat fabric all round. Radio was crud, and poor sound insulation does nothing for it. Suspension can be a mixture of harsh and squashy at the same time. Lackluster power output from the engine even considering the capacity, and that the injection is merely a token nod to emissions regs. No tacho, and a four speed box for a car sold thru the first half of the 1990s for heaven's sake... etc, etc.
BUT the damn thing refuses to die, even with a huge amount of abuse, and the vast majority of problems i've had with it are pretty much down to the regular 3rd-party component failure that any car might suffer, unless the makers were to produce every last part themselves. Certainly no major gearbox, engine, bodywork, steering or brake trouble (well... ok... the rear brakes had seized when i got it... but again that's more-or-less 3rd party stuff, the cylinders hadnt been changed in who knows how long. brake *lines* were still fine). I've accidentally demonstrated recently that the engine will tolerate running for several hundred miles with a chronically low oil level....
(plus, despite the low power output, the engine has enough spunk from it's more-or-less full-range torque to make up, particularly around the town settings it was designed for... the GT being even better in that regard........ and somehow it's oddly satisfying to drive, suspension/power/braking issues aside!)
It was expensive to buy in it's day, but someone did, even with that fairly poor spec, because they were buying into the reliability vw guaranteed with their slightly overpriced otherwise vanilla motor cars.
Shame that the pendulum's swinging the other way?
Oh yeah, and that the lastest polos seem to be reaching the size of the early Golfs, and the Golfs are... well.... just big!
(park a mk3 polo coupe by a 3-door mk1 golf, and even there you can see a telling comparison.. there's not much in it!)
Soapbox over....
(of course that was all based on no research other than the suspect general knowledge i've grazed so far... but, mud sticks?)
If I had the money now, for a Polo-class car, it actually would in all likelihood be on a Jazz or Yaris... maybe a new Panda, though I would have to strip the bugger right back to the metalwork (having the same/slightly worse performance figures as/than the 80s model, with about 40% more power on tap, is just unforgivable)
*traitorous talk i know*
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Babe RuthLess
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