I have had a search but cant seem to bring anything of any relevance up. I just had to sell my pride and joy mk2 crx 1.6 16v pgmfi when i moved to university.
My girlfriend has just been given a mk 2 polo squareback with only 23000 miles on the clock. it seems in really good shape, except it may need some welding under the passenger seat area. she is still learning, but i am already formulating plans (evil cackle). I gave my old nova to my sister so this little polo is my only hope for true performance.
Until I opened the bonnet.
The rocker cover is so rusty i cant believe and although my gf hasnt dug out the V5 i think it is a 1 litre not the 1.3 because it has a 4 speed box - am I correct?
My next real question is - i dont want a little 1.3 or 1.416v conversion but I have been looking at dropping a mk2 golf gti 16v engine in there. This is my first bit of research into it, so does anyone on here know whether it has been attempted before?
i will probably do this over summer, I have a good friend who has access to a full workshop garage, so I am researching now for summertime!
obviously the brakes will need uprating too - and I can imagine problems with having to change to fuelling system to be injection rather than carbouretted. I will sorth these little problems out one by one, but first i want to know if it has been attempted before?
Wow i have written loads, cheers if you are still reading!
engine conversions
engine conversions
Last edited by dancrxuk on Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tahrey1043
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christ man you dont mess about do you! thats going to be some work... i'll let others explain better but i'm thinking --- wiring problems, possibly changing fuel pump, remote mount servo, doing the chassis over to make it more suitable (anti roll bar x 2, springs, etc). not to mention the gearbox because anything over about 60hp on a polo 4-speed is a serious liability.
(it's only just high enough to avoid blowing 45 and 55hp lumps on a regular basis)
1.3s did indeed come with a 4 speed, it wasnt a standard feature on 1272s until a couple years into the mk3 line i think, and it was optional on the 1043s right up until the end of production (and probably would have been into the mk4s if they thought they could get away with it). Shouldnt be too bad so long as you dont plan to regularly sit at much more than 90mph --- over the ton is definately a special circumstances day trip.
rocker cover being rusty is fairly normal, depends where the car's been and if the thing ever got scratched. lucky with mine in that it's a dull brown-orange colour, but totally smooth, no scratches, no "real" rust, no bubbles! but if it were part of the majority it would probably have a little rust.
give it a run anyway, you'll swear there's more than 1300 under the hood already, if it's a mk2 and you havent got any load on other than yourself. it took ages for me to be convinced my mk3 1.0 wasn't a 1.3.... as it stands i think my new 1600 astra (75hp - about 1000kg) has a similar power-to-weight ratio as a 1300 mk2 (55hp - about 750kg) - just ponder that! but luckily wins my half of the argument by having more doors and being more aerodynamic.
23000 miles on the clock and it's a mark II however --- that means it's at least 15 years old by most systems, certainly no less than 13. You wanna beleive that the car has done significantly less than 2000 miles a year? Just-about plausible if its never left the city and has been used purely to commute and shop, but i've racked up over 27000 in two and a half years without doing anything out of the ordinary.
I'd be suspicious about that, especially if it needs welding - one of the things that would make me walk away from a polo, because it shows its either had damage, or got a troublesome scratch that wasn't looked after within, oo, say a year of it happening. Have a good look for other signs of aging - a worn drivers seat and pedals, thinned out carpet, paint non-uniformity due to huge amounts of bug splatter whilst out in the sun, etc.
PS if it really has only done 2k a year, then - unless it was a weekly 40 mile round trip somewhere - the engine could probably do with a good cleanout treatment (and some cruises that vary between 60 and 80) as it'll be full of icky deposits and gunk that get generated in city driving.
thats about all i can think of, thank pete.
if you're serious but find the car is sprightly enough, the miles are genuine, and the welding easy, you might wanna find and fit a suitable 5 speed as a first step
(it's only just high enough to avoid blowing 45 and 55hp lumps on a regular basis)
1.3s did indeed come with a 4 speed, it wasnt a standard feature on 1272s until a couple years into the mk3 line i think, and it was optional on the 1043s right up until the end of production (and probably would have been into the mk4s if they thought they could get away with it). Shouldnt be too bad so long as you dont plan to regularly sit at much more than 90mph --- over the ton is definately a special circumstances day trip.
rocker cover being rusty is fairly normal, depends where the car's been and if the thing ever got scratched. lucky with mine in that it's a dull brown-orange colour, but totally smooth, no scratches, no "real" rust, no bubbles! but if it were part of the majority it would probably have a little rust.
give it a run anyway, you'll swear there's more than 1300 under the hood already, if it's a mk2 and you havent got any load on other than yourself. it took ages for me to be convinced my mk3 1.0 wasn't a 1.3.... as it stands i think my new 1600 astra (75hp - about 1000kg) has a similar power-to-weight ratio as a 1300 mk2 (55hp - about 750kg) - just ponder that! but luckily wins my half of the argument by having more doors and being more aerodynamic.
23000 miles on the clock and it's a mark II however --- that means it's at least 15 years old by most systems, certainly no less than 13. You wanna beleive that the car has done significantly less than 2000 miles a year? Just-about plausible if its never left the city and has been used purely to commute and shop, but i've racked up over 27000 in two and a half years without doing anything out of the ordinary.
I'd be suspicious about that, especially if it needs welding - one of the things that would make me walk away from a polo, because it shows its either had damage, or got a troublesome scratch that wasn't looked after within, oo, say a year of it happening. Have a good look for other signs of aging - a worn drivers seat and pedals, thinned out carpet, paint non-uniformity due to huge amounts of bug splatter whilst out in the sun, etc.
PS if it really has only done 2k a year, then - unless it was a weekly 40 mile round trip somewhere - the engine could probably do with a good cleanout treatment (and some cruises that vary between 60 and 80) as it'll be full of icky deposits and gunk that get generated in city driving.
thats about all i can think of, thank pete.
if you're serious but find the car is sprightly enough, the miles are genuine, and the welding easy, you might wanna find and fit a suitable 5 speed as a first step
Cheers tahrey. I was very dubious too - i think it had the 20,000 mile service in 2001 and after ringing my gf this morning to make sure (the car and her are in kent not nottingham) the mileage is closer to 40,000. I had a look at the MOTs when I was home and i remember they checked out - but the only reason i know the welding may need doing is that the car was checked over by a mechanic before she got given the car. (i wasnt with her at that stage) I havent actually checked myself yet.
After doing a little more research, I found that it has been done before, but into a mk 2 coupe not a squareback (not that with the mechanics much should change) but the guy spent over 4000 on it! being a student I wasnt planning on that much, maybe up to 1000 but thats it.
The gearbox first makes a sensible idea. I have got hold of the haynes manual for the car on the internet and also the one for the golf. I just cant believe how much there is to do! I have also been looking at putting a 2.0 16v in the 5 dr 1.3 nova and that is much more common - one look on ebay for 2.0 16v novas will show that. Also you can buy kits for that conversion but not for the polos.
There isnt a big tuning area with a mk 2 polo is there?! Anyway thanks for the help mate, it seems a sensible start to make. I dont think i really know what i am letting myself in for - there must be a reason why everyone is changing to a 1.3 and modifying. But twin webber 40s and the inlet manifold and carb rejet and uprated exhaust and 5 speed gearbox will add up in price. Im off now to browse german sites in the hope of digging something up. Hope my GCSE German isnt too rusty...
After doing a little more research, I found that it has been done before, but into a mk 2 coupe not a squareback (not that with the mechanics much should change) but the guy spent over 4000 on it! being a student I wasnt planning on that much, maybe up to 1000 but thats it.
The gearbox first makes a sensible idea. I have got hold of the haynes manual for the car on the internet and also the one for the golf. I just cant believe how much there is to do! I have also been looking at putting a 2.0 16v in the 5 dr 1.3 nova and that is much more common - one look on ebay for 2.0 16v novas will show that. Also you can buy kits for that conversion but not for the polos.
There isnt a big tuning area with a mk 2 polo is there?! Anyway thanks for the help mate, it seems a sensible start to make. I dont think i really know what i am letting myself in for - there must be a reason why everyone is changing to a 1.3 and modifying. But twin webber 40s and the inlet manifold and carb rejet and uprated exhaust and 5 speed gearbox will add up in price. Im off now to browse german sites in the hope of digging something up. Hope my GCSE German isnt too rusty...
Last edited by dancrxuk on Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
just found this on a german site:
http://www.autoextrem.de/showthread,t-22004.htm
about the mk2 golf 16v engine into mk2 polo. free translations makes it out as:
Therefore..
Nen 2er Polo coupe *g* have. Would have for that nen motor of nem bekanten bought me. It is a 1.8 16 V motors of the 2er gulf without KAT. It constructed Dadrauf 2,45 suitor double carburetors and the pistons of the audi S2 Turbo reingebaut. The motor has with the entire votings etc. between 190 and 220 Hp. Now the motor must however in my Polo purely. Who can help me and say me, what I must change all for a zuöassung and must pay attention whereon I?
Helps me JUNGS......
(it would seem this is no ordinary golf gti engine... anyone want 220bhp in their squareback?
)
Need new releases of VW and may not deteriorate you in the exhaust fume standard
Brake concern must be adapted, and you must have naturally cable tree and tax devices suitably to the motor.
For pics on this conversion i found this link: http://www.vwtuningsalzmann.de/SeitePolo1.htm
it looks gorgeous. Ive want it so bad.
Meal!
Is as a first a question, the motor task honor and the crank shaft changed? Because otherwise the pistons of the S2 never fit! With which it concerns namely excess piston of the 5 cylinder! Fit that also yarn oak on the Pleuel of the 16 V! The Pleuel should be changed, these do not fit again on the 16 V crank shaft! Also the achievement of 190 - 220 HP never are with the named variations to erziehlen. In mixed would be allowed to be. 160 HP end. Now to the installation. You need no releases of VW more because this the tüv or the Dekra provides before the removal. At the firm salt man or at the firm worry motoring, gives it the Aufhängungen and the carrier for the motor. You can construct the fixture for the transmission out of Passat-parts themselves. I would receive the front and rear brake of the gulf 2,16 V. Receive brake force amplifier + Haupbremszylinder with. Load work of the Polo G40. Build in unconditionally other Stabi. It gives in KW. You more crookedly can receive the 16 V and can construct the lower part out of G40 and gulf 1 GTI 112 HP-parts itself.
This last one was the most useful, its starting to look a little do-able now. This is going to need some serious thought...
http://www.autoextrem.de/showthread,t-22004.htm
about the mk2 golf 16v engine into mk2 polo. free translations makes it out as:
Therefore..
Nen 2er Polo coupe *g* have. Would have for that nen motor of nem bekanten bought me. It is a 1.8 16 V motors of the 2er gulf without KAT. It constructed Dadrauf 2,45 suitor double carburetors and the pistons of the audi S2 Turbo reingebaut. The motor has with the entire votings etc. between 190 and 220 Hp. Now the motor must however in my Polo purely. Who can help me and say me, what I must change all for a zuöassung and must pay attention whereon I?
Helps me JUNGS......
(it would seem this is no ordinary golf gti engine... anyone want 220bhp in their squareback?
)Need new releases of VW and may not deteriorate you in the exhaust fume standard
Brake concern must be adapted, and you must have naturally cable tree and tax devices suitably to the motor.
For pics on this conversion i found this link: http://www.vwtuningsalzmann.de/SeitePolo1.htm
it looks gorgeous. Ive want it so bad.
Meal!
Is as a first a question, the motor task honor and the crank shaft changed? Because otherwise the pistons of the S2 never fit! With which it concerns namely excess piston of the 5 cylinder! Fit that also yarn oak on the Pleuel of the 16 V! The Pleuel should be changed, these do not fit again on the 16 V crank shaft! Also the achievement of 190 - 220 HP never are with the named variations to erziehlen. In mixed would be allowed to be. 160 HP end. Now to the installation. You need no releases of VW more because this the tüv or the Dekra provides before the removal. At the firm salt man or at the firm worry motoring, gives it the Aufhängungen and the carrier for the motor. You can construct the fixture for the transmission out of Passat-parts themselves. I would receive the front and rear brake of the gulf 2,16 V. Receive brake force amplifier + Haupbremszylinder with. Load work of the Polo G40. Build in unconditionally other Stabi. It gives in KW. You more crookedly can receive the 16 V and can construct the lower part out of G40 and gulf 1 GTI 112 HP-parts itself.
This last one was the most useful, its starting to look a little do-able now. This is going to need some serious thought...
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GroovyCarrot
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I'll start off by saying, if you pull this off I'm going to be round like a shot begging for a ride 
Anything's possible, but your main issues will be:
Different engine mounts (1.05 and 1.3 golfs shared the same mounts as the polo, but the actual golf engines, the 1.6 and 1.8's were mounted differently)
Space - it's a big engine bay for a small car, but the 1.8 16v is a very big engine
Weight - the polo is a very, very light car and that's not a light engine. You will definately have to change the suspension to handle it, but I think you may find yourself having understeer issues from the weight of it
Brakes - firstly, the standard brakes may as well have been made of wood and flint for all the difference it would make. Yes, upgrade the brakes, it's something I'm going to be doing and mine's only a 1043cc, but especially if your gf is learning to drive in it you'll almost certainly want a brake servo. This either involves adapting a remote servo from a mk1 golf gti, which very few people have done because it's not an easy job, or you could weld in a mk3 bulkhead to fit a (small) servo in - again, more than a saturday afternoon's work.
Fuel, you'll need electronic in-line fuel pumps I should think, instead of the mechanical job on the mk2. Shouldn't be a problem, mk3's were fuel injected so I should think their fuel pumps could be adapted fairly easily
A 5 speed gearbox is a very good place to start. I fitted a close ratio 5 speed to my 1 litre and it's made no end of difference, feels so much nippier than it used to because you can actually hold it in something vaguely resembling a power band now.
That's all I can think of at the moment, but there will be a lot more.. I think I ought to suggest, cliche as it is, that you consider a 1.3 G40 engine.. I believe there's a chap on here who has one tuned to around 200 bhp, so they're not lacking in the tunability department.. and any more power than that would just be silly in a mk2 polo
Whatever you end up doing to it, good luck
Anything's possible, but your main issues will be:
Different engine mounts (1.05 and 1.3 golfs shared the same mounts as the polo, but the actual golf engines, the 1.6 and 1.8's were mounted differently)
Space - it's a big engine bay for a small car, but the 1.8 16v is a very big engine
Weight - the polo is a very, very light car and that's not a light engine. You will definately have to change the suspension to handle it, but I think you may find yourself having understeer issues from the weight of it
Brakes - firstly, the standard brakes may as well have been made of wood and flint for all the difference it would make. Yes, upgrade the brakes, it's something I'm going to be doing and mine's only a 1043cc, but especially if your gf is learning to drive in it you'll almost certainly want a brake servo. This either involves adapting a remote servo from a mk1 golf gti, which very few people have done because it's not an easy job, or you could weld in a mk3 bulkhead to fit a (small) servo in - again, more than a saturday afternoon's work.
Fuel, you'll need electronic in-line fuel pumps I should think, instead of the mechanical job on the mk2. Shouldn't be a problem, mk3's were fuel injected so I should think their fuel pumps could be adapted fairly easily
A 5 speed gearbox is a very good place to start. I fitted a close ratio 5 speed to my 1 litre and it's made no end of difference, feels so much nippier than it used to because you can actually hold it in something vaguely resembling a power band now.
That's all I can think of at the moment, but there will be a lot more.. I think I ought to suggest, cliche as it is, that you consider a 1.3 G40 engine.. I believe there's a chap on here who has one tuned to around 200 bhp, so they're not lacking in the tunability department.. and any more power than that would just be silly in a mk2 polo
Whatever you end up doing to it, good luck
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Gareth_GT_Hatch
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You dont need to put a high capacity engine in a polo, we have the polo G40 (1272cc supercharged and 113bhp out of the box) with ooodles of tuning potential for that. The engines are in short supply however and they dont come cheap, a big block 8 or 16v golf engine does go in but its a totally custom job. the largest capacity engine that drops into a mk2 polo is from the MK5 polo GTi (1.6 and 125bhp)
The G40 is a better option though, less power to start with but its easy to catch up, 150bhp being a good middle of the road figure for a reasonably well tuned one (ported charger and a few other mods like toothed supercharger belts and a performance exhaust) And with it being a supercharged it has bags of torque as well.
What reg is this mk2 polo of yours? If its (86) C reg or newer then that makes the job of fitting fuel injection componets a whole lot easier. Also the newer ones have a section cut out of the chassis leg to accept 5-speed gearboxes.
Like tahrey said you also need to consider how to make your modded mk2 stop. Which is easier said than done on uk models as they dont have a brake servo. Most people with MK2 G40s have something called a BRM remote servo kit. Youll need one of these as well but BRM no longer make them so theyre like rockinghorse poo as the saying goes.
A mk2 squareback G40 would be a very original car in this country by the way, there are a couple of mk3 squareback G40s and I hope to join that illustrious club one day but no mk2's
The G40 is a better option though, less power to start with but its easy to catch up, 150bhp being a good middle of the road figure for a reasonably well tuned one (ported charger and a few other mods like toothed supercharger belts and a performance exhaust) And with it being a supercharged it has bags of torque as well.
What reg is this mk2 polo of yours? If its (86) C reg or newer then that makes the job of fitting fuel injection componets a whole lot easier. Also the newer ones have a section cut out of the chassis leg to accept 5-speed gearboxes.
Like tahrey said you also need to consider how to make your modded mk2 stop. Which is easier said than done on uk models as they dont have a brake servo. Most people with MK2 G40s have something called a BRM remote servo kit. Youll need one of these as well but BRM no longer make them so theyre like rockinghorse poo as the saying goes.
A mk2 squareback G40 would be a very original car in this country by the way, there are a couple of mk3 squareback G40s and I hope to join that illustrious club one day but no mk2's
Alas, i think this will be far out of my budget range. Thanks for the advice and ideas, but it seems too expensive. Looks like i will be tuning the 1.3 like everyone else!
where can you get hold of an inlet manifold for twin carbs? which is better, the twin 40 or twin 45 carbs? do they have to be regularly recalibrated? could you supercharge the engine later after adding the twin carbs, and more importantly is the engine strong enough to take the extra pressure? if anyone could point me in the direction of a good source of tuning ideas i would be very grateful!
where can you get hold of an inlet manifold for twin carbs? which is better, the twin 40 or twin 45 carbs? do they have to be regularly recalibrated? could you supercharge the engine later after adding the twin carbs, and more importantly is the engine strong enough to take the extra pressure? if anyone could point me in the direction of a good source of tuning ideas i would be very grateful!
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Gareth_GT_Hatch
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I believe sorg used to make an inlet manifold to accept twin 40s, very difficult to find these days though. Id have thought twin 45s would be too big. I only know of two polos on twin 40s and they both had jetting issues as the carbs came off much bigger engines so that is a problem thats likely to come up again.
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Tahrey1043
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think you're having the same problem i had (and still am having, to a small degree) .... nearzero budget
might just have to suck up your pride and leave it a while! VW modding simply isnt a student thing if you want to have any kind of life outside of it (just running the car itself is a major cost)
the gearbox was going to be my only main mod, and i had to save for an age for that, and only got into it once i'd actually left uni. would have been about £250 ---- worth it i think for the petrol and engine wear i would have saved since --- between box and labour.
though i'll admit i was thinking more of an eco 5 sp (particularly if you were going to get into high speed shenanigans - or at least, a GT with a 0.851 x 4.063 top vs the mk2s 0.891 (0.909?) x 4.267 on both 4 and 5 speed) though
might just have to suck up your pride and leave it a while! VW modding simply isnt a student thing if you want to have any kind of life outside of it (just running the car itself is a major cost)
the gearbox was going to be my only main mod, and i had to save for an age for that, and only got into it once i'd actually left uni. would have been about £250 ---- worth it i think for the petrol and engine wear i would have saved since --- between box and labour.
though i'll admit i was thinking more of an eco 5 sp (particularly if you were going to get into high speed shenanigans - or at least, a GT with a 0.851 x 4.063 top vs the mk2s 0.891 (0.909?) x 4.267 on both 4 and 5 speed) though