Return of the Gearbox Oil

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:19 pm

.....subject

OK then. I have me a wrench, and a suitable socket, which i managed to fit into something resembling a drain plug. I have tugged and tugged and tugged until finally the decade-old seal of gentle corrosion broke, and fairly quickly eked it out after that. About a teaspoon of slightly gunky looking fluid came out, and that was it.

Now i'd like to know if anyone can be so kind......
* did i get the right plug (only opening the filler so far, to check the level)
* should any more have come out (consider that the car is jacked up just high enough at the front to allow me and my nose clearance from the sump on a low-profile creeper -- but nothing at the back -- ie it looks like it could double for one of Sir Hilary's sherpas

)
* does this look / sound dirty enough to need renewal
* how in the hell am i going to refill it if so, particularly with any accuracy or cleanliness (i think draining it "cleanly" will be hard enough)???

pics (56k friendly - lordy!):

spent a merry hour farting around underneath the car, only to realise that (unlike before, with shorter handled tools) I could probably do it far easier from above. Maybe should have jacked it down first though...

(still wasn't easy - could maybe do a click at a time, bending the expansion tank slightly out of the way in one direction, then stretching the pipe in the other.. luckily after a while it became loose enough to finger-spin it out)

i've put it back in, loosely, for now. car's not going anywhere after all.

GroovyCarrot · Post by **GroovyCarrot** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:00 pm

1) Yep, you've got the right plug, top and bottom

2) Nope, the oil is filled until it starts flowing out of the filler plug, so it should be level with the hole with the car on the ground - the jacking up would give you about a teaspoon's worth over the hole I guess..
3) The gear oil doesn't really get dirty, it's not being contaminated with gasses from the combustion chamber like engine oil is.. however it does lose it's lubricating properties over time so it's worth changing as a matter of course.
4)Small length of hosepipe sticking into the fill hole, funnel in the end, pour slowly

Draining's just a case of removing the wheel so you don't contaminate your tyre with it, sticking a tub somewhere in the vague vicinity to catch what you can and opening all the taps

Same torque wrench as mine

Be warned, it sometimes sticks and doesn't click when you've reached the right torque - I always test mine before I use it by sticking it on a low torque and making sure it clicks if I try to tighten a wheel bolt with it. If it doesn't a light tap to the head tends to free it (it's head, preferably

). Still, for Â£15 it does the job..

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:43 pm

cuh, now yer tells me, when i'm fired up to do some major engine discombobulating with it (on the sly)

thanks for the tippage anyway... i've got a big funnel SOMEWHERE but it's being backward in coming forwards like.

btw those pistons / rings still available should i get my act together enough?

... me mum's getting frantic for me to flog the car before it goes from 6 to 5 months MOT but i have qualms about getting rid of it when it's using so much oil - either i keep schtum and hope they're savvy enough to check every week so it doesnt seize (hell, i wasnt..), or let on that it's got this problem and watch every potential buyer either turn tail, or offer me so little that i may as well hang on to it.

hmmm

or is it safe enough to rely on the low pressure light / buzzer?

GroovyCarrot · Post by **GroovyCarrot** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:53 pm

Yeah, they're available if you want them

I was debating taking them to the tip this morning, but decided I ought to keep them in case I ever decided to finish the job I started in the summer.. but you're welcome to them if you want them anyway, my mum will probably demand I get rid of them before I ever get round to that

As for the funnel, I tend to just make a funnel out of the cover page of a glossy mag. Absorbant paper's not quite so good, but the recycling box tends to be closer than the shed when I'm doing such work, and I'm lazy

GroovyCarrot · Post by **GroovyCarrot** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:55 pm

How much is it using, btw? And is it giving off any smoke? And, have you checked the usual like head gasket oil seal and sump gasket? It's unlikely to be burning seriously excessive amounts of oil without a bit of smoke here and there.. Just a thought

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:59 pm

uh...?

ok hows a litre every 500 miles grab ya....... and the block has wetness at the same end as the loss of compression, certainly, but it's not peeing out in such a way that i'd expect it to lose that much so quickly. There's no drips on the driveway, etc..

all i have to go on right now is the low compression, and how it got better with the addition of oil - hence, worn bore and/or rings.

sump gasket, erm. i havent looked. basically i was going to get a posse together (consisting of: myself, bemused onlookers) and crack on at the piston job, checking the cam / head (and now, i guess, sump) gasket as i went - or indeed, just replacing them.

either that or just put it in the paper for spares & repairs, Â£50, if you've got the engine i've got the car
still tempted to whack metz's spare one in but it's a matter of logistics - a few small lumps of metal like pistons can mail easily enough, getting an engine block from rotherham to brum is an entirely different matter. and mohammed can't go to the mountain in this case, as mohammed would need an extra forty quid shelled out on him for temporary insurance

GroovyCarrot · Post by **GroovyCarrot** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:30 am

A litre every 500 miles

That's a lot of oil..
I'm really puzzled though, if it's burning that much oil it really should be smoking like a chimney... although I guess a combination of a bit of burning and a bit of leaking could add up..
If you change the pistons, you'll have to change the head gasket and sump gasket at the same time, so that's a whole flock of birds with one stone, all good stuff

Any idea when you're planning on doing this? With luck I'll be coming over to brum within the next couple of months, if the uni ever actually bothers to make me an offer.. or if you're planning on doing it sooner than that I'll just get them posted over to you. They will need one more piston ring as I cracked an oil scraper ring so they've got one of my old 85,000 mile old ones on there at the moment, less than ideal really.. but I think they're only about a fiver from GSF so that should be alright.
If you're thinking of just sticking Metz's spare engine straight in, couldn't you take the ashtray to pick it up rather than insuring the polo for it? Couple of binliners in the boot and it should be alright

bstardchild · Post by **bstardchild** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:42 am

GroovyCarrot wrote:If you're thinking of just sticking Metz's spare engine straight in, couldn't you take the ashtray to pick it up rather than insuring the polo for it? Couple of binliners in the boot and it should be alright

Could pick it up in the Polo as well.......

I think this is a good example

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:50 am

bstardchild · Post by **bstardchild** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:56 am

Gareth_GT_Hatch wrote:

It can be lifted in the car by two people - hey Gareth

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:27 pm

yep, certainly can.

Three people is just overkill.

Uncle doms car is the best for carrying engines though. He's got an electric crane mounted to the top of the drivers side rear suspension turret (and a few other places) Makes lifting an engine easy as.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:09 am

yeah how about getting it in/out of the engine bay though!

good point about putting it in the vaux however (it would probably swallow it... hmmm, twin engine astra? RWD provided by VW 1-litre for a 75/45 split..

) ...... and rotho is "only" another 45 miles onwards from nottingham (or: twice the distance)

im still really in two minds about all this. been beating up on myself a little this eve really. just a bit of metal and glass and rubber.... but still.

argh!

i wouldnt mind giving it a go but the logistics of either thing - overhaul or replacement - just play havoc with my mind - and the shadow of one too many failed driveway projects looms large, especially from the "family" indoors. if this was to go wrong it would be MAJOR. Just dont have any faith in my ability to pull it off. Even with help. I could allow people to come on down, steam on in and do it all for me but that's plain out of order.

seriously - would anyone fancy a project, to drive away? if you're ok with remembering to check the dipstick every time you fill the tank it'll probably last another 5k before actually needing work, then you can go crazy

drop a GT 1.4 in or something stupid like that. or just another 1.0...

apart from some minor arch rust (and on the sump?!), usual little dings and that fscking door, there's owt else wrong with it. just the engine is doing this thing. i've tried to look after the car, thrown considerable effort and cash at it on various occasions, but time's often been the problem (which is how both the rust AND the engine came about, but two very different sides of the coin!)

Over 5 months MOT (aug 1st), more than 6 months tax (aug 31st!), "nice" (if near-standard) interior, supplied without what few blings i managed - ie it'd a bogstandard CL on black steels with fullsize silver plastic trims. But with the Sony stereo and fogs. Sensible offers?
1.0 / 4sp / navy blue / h-reg / 81k / breadvan hatch, if you werent listening

(will be? is?) offered here before ebay / street corner / classifieds --- though i may give the (1.1!) fiesta racer kid who's a mate's cousin a crack with it - he's part chav, but he's actually made the ford quite nice and "sympathetic".. save for the chopped springs (budget!). If he's interested... probably wont be.

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:55 am

replacing a complete engine is dead easy. Its rebuilding them that I dont like doing. I know Id rather swap an engine than do a headgasket anyway. Yeah you need an engine crane but if the new engine is sat next to the car ready it can be done in a day. Think it took 7 hours to put the 1.4 in this GT (and I was hung over!) But then Ive had a fair bit of practice when it comes to engine swaps.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:17 pm

there's the rub, i'm a newb to all those intents/purposes, and i dont know how good id feel about getting random peeps in (especially as pretty much ANYONE on here with balatant tech skill seems to have had the sense to stay the damn hell out of the midlands conurbation) to "help" me sort it on a car thats going to go straight out to bargain market afterwards.

GroovyCarrot · Post by **GroovyCarrot** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:34 pm

Much as I'd love to take on a project, I really don't have the space or the money for it...

I would personally say that your best options would either be just to flog it for what you can - a bit 'unfeeling' but at the end of the day it is just a car, and one that you don't need anymore. Chances are it'll last a good few thousand miles more - I know someone around here who runs his fiesta until the oil pressure warning light comes on, sticks in a couple of pints of the cheapest oil he can get and keeps going. The poor fiesta's lasted years like that, the polo should be fine.
Or option 2, just stick a complete new engine in. It really, really isn't difficult - unplug everything, unscrew the engine mounts and driveshafts, remove radiator, heave. If you want some moral support / guidance I'm sure I could find some time around easter to come over to brum for a couple of days, I'd be happy to give a hand. As gareth said, replacing the whole engine will be a lot quicker and easier than overhauling the current one, and there's a bit more security in that you know it's just going to work. You could change things like the headgasket etc on the replacement just for peace of mind, takes half an hour at most with the engine out of the car.

Being logical I'd say go with the first option. But, it would be sad to have to do so, a bit unlucky for the poor old dear who ends up buying it, and a bit of a shame to see a good car go out with problems that wouldn't be too hard to correct.. so morally and emotionally it would be nice to go for the second. Of course, if you do want to just stick the new pistons in, they are very much available for you, but especially if you haven't had an engine apart on the bench before it may be a bit more awkward / frustrating, I know things often are before you've really got a feel for how it all fits together - plus there's less security than there is in just bolting in a new engine.

Have a think about it, let me know if you want the pistons or want some help with the engine, happy to oblige either way.