sports exhuaust how much more bhp

Discuss Engine, Gearbox and Exhaust
Tahrey1043
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Post by Tahrey1043 »

its got a jetex and the compulsary 57i
what are those, dude? a zorst, and.... er?
slap me for being stupid :)

Right, now, had some "off topic" adventures since last time. Ashy has a 1600cc, approx 70hp (+55% on the 1043cc polo, +40% on the 999) engine with about as much torque low down as a GT peaks at (ie, a seriously healthy amount - +71% compared to 1043), and although it's heavier, is about as aerodynamic. The torque quotient (for starters, it's outperforming a peak revving "official" stock VW 1.05 at all of 2500rpm) gives it an enormously wide peak plateau on it's power graph according to the butt-dyno, giving it about as hard at 4250rpm as it does thru to 5500rpm; 110 is 5500 in 4th, 4400 in 5th. Giving it death, 4th and then into top, i've had an indicated 119mph from it, on a long, fairly steep downhill (one where the polo might give me a little over 100), after a concerted cane on the flat towards the top of the hill, already pulling three generous figures. I was feeling like I would probably die against the back of the beemer a mile in the distance if i didn't lift off at that point, but it wasnt accelerating any more anyway. As far as I can tell, it's speedo is deadly accurate past 80mph (over-reads like a b*tch below 50, however!)

this, amongst a few other cases, makes me even more skeptical of the posted speeds, but as some (MODERN! IE Toyota, VTEC, etc) 1 litre engines on the market can put out around 70hp anyway (if nowhere near the same torque...) it -might- be feasible if you've got a fluke one. For the love of pete RO-RO IT! I wanna see the figures :D

mk3dave - i think maybe your speedo is just a bit more honest than the rest of us, (mine is easily showing 90 when actually doing 85) or you've ended up with the 1.3 gearbox somehow and can't actually pull to near peak revs at top speed - ending up above, or below, but never quite "there" :)
either that or your air filters clogged....
carmadaaron
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Post by carmadaaron »

57i is a K &N induction kit, and jetex is a zorst ;)
Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix »

sorry but all you guys who think you can work out the top speed by BHP is bo**ocks

my 1043cc managed roughly about 120 on the speedo, giving in to 10% alteration means about 108mph and thats along the straight.

my 1272cc polo has a proven 121mph by a police radar gun and should be 14seconds to 60 but does that in a proven 10 at Trax last year,

nothing was done to the 1 litre and the 1.3 well!! thats got a full custom built stainless single box system and it goes like a rocket, even when i go throught those mobile speed indicators (the ones that tell you how quick your going) even up to 70mph my speedo always read what gets flashed up. now you can't tell me that my 1.3 has about 120bhp just to get up to those speeds.

its all about how well looked after the engine is and also how well the rest of the car is working!

i'll be up on wednesday at the NW meet if anyone wants a trip out!

Will
Tahrey1043
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Post by Tahrey1043 »

Actually you can work out the top speed quite accurately, given the power curve and gearing (or just the BHP, if you assume "perfect" gearing), for a given car in still air. It's simple physics - the engine can stick out a certain amount of power .. or torque .. or, to be simple, force .. to move the car along, and the wind resistance creates a drag force in the opposite direction to that movement, which is a function of (air)speed and the drag coefficient (based on the shape and cross-sectional area) - which for a given, unmodded car, should be fairly constant.
You can do the maths on it with a range of cars knowing these numbers and the results are fairly accurate. In fact for low powers, it holds fairly true even just taking as a given that most modern cars are roughly as aerodynamic as each other, and have near-optimal gearing; 20hp is all you need to "cruise" with the trucks; 35hp will see you troubling but not breaking the continental speed limits. 45hp is kissing 90mph; 55 high 90s; you have to have just over that to break the ton on the flat in still air. 70 is about 110 constant, 75 is about 115 (seen it in a punto). (The magic number, i found, from about 7.5 to 75hp, is the square root of (180 x power)). ... Differences from this can usually be explained by crazy gearing (hard to define without driving it) or aerodynamic benefits / penalties (quite obvious by looking, a lot of the time - e.g. Lotus Elan vs a Grand Move)

Beyond that fluid dynamics of air starts to get a bit more complex and shifts from a square-rule law to a cube one, and then higher powers... In fact beyond 100mph it's a little tricky, but you can bend the facts a little to suit yourself (that's around where it starts changing noticably - 70 is more like 108, 75 more like 112)

BUT .... You're on the right lines just the wrong side of the track. What you CAN'T reliably do is work out the power output simply by the engine size, or even rely on it to be the same from one engine of the same type off the same production line on the same day to the next. You get good ones and you get bad ones. Even just the difference from CL to GT to G40 should show that. Same block. But quite a range of power.

You get 1100cc class motors (for arguments sake lets put the 1043 there) with about 30hp, like some Morris Minors were; some with mid 40s, like the polo; some with 55 or 60, like on Puntos. Or even reasonably recent 1200cc's with a poor low 40s hp (nova merits)... put the variability onto this wide range of bhp-per-litre and you see the typical differences that are spread amongst owners on this board. Could be that mk3dave's engine is simply an underperformer, the way the block, pistons, head, valve, inlet & exhaust piping, basic distributor timing etc came off the line has combined to give him only about 41hp instead of 45...... and yours are overacheivers, giving quite a spunky and high level of horsepower.

(personally i think mine was nearer 50 when i got it and has slowly worn down during it's hard-thrashed tenure.. i can only guess why :D)

Which is why I think you should take it (and the 1272 if it's around) on a rolling road day. See if it's trousers match your mouth, so to speak. It'd be cool to see a 55hp 1043 after all (not sure if it could be more than that unmodified - you sure it wasn't a following wind?), just as it's neat to see Karl's 1.3 SPi putting down 62 horses and two welly boots full of torque.

Of course it IS all to do with how well the engine's been looked after and how well it's working - because those things will influence the power output! A knackered engine will put out far less of it's potential than one that's been mollycoddled and pampered all it's life.
120mph requires far more power than you think. Hell, 108 does. Those are some damn fine working engines you have there.

I've driven a 1043 myself, very, very f***ing hard most of the time, for the past 2 and a half years. I've done 150 mile motorway jaunts on mixed gradients without lifting my foot from W.O.T. for more than a culmulative minute. Kept the oil (fairly) fresh and always topped up, the air filter clean, airways unobstructed, exhaust ok, tyres pumped, leads, plugs and contacts all clean and in good condition.. even chipped it. The most i've seen out of it, downhill, on an over-reading speedo, giving it absolute death, is 106mph. I thought the engine was going to blow. The revcounter needle was just into the red and I was glad when the road levelled out and that speed ebbed away again. Might have gone quicker with a 5-speed, but only 1 or 2mph more... there's no way in this world it would have done that on the flat in any gear, or sustained it in 4th without blowing up. Plus the real speed was probably not significantly over the ton.

Best 0-60 in it ever was about 16.5 seconds, and i dont think that was particularly accurate, though consistently it would be about 19 rather than the 20 in the book (i got the off-the-line starts and 1-2, 2-3 gearchanges down to a science).

Which again is why I'd be eager to see the test results... :)
stuart_hatch
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Post by stuart_hatch »

Seems a bit fast for a 1 litre, my Peugeot 106 1.1 runaround (rolling roaded at 65bhp) hit a max of 108 on a slight down hill slope.
Tahrey1043
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Post by Tahrey1043 »

zactly......

im not refuting the claim of those speeds, but they certainly weren't done by a 45 and 55hp engine without some kind of assistance. maybe a 1043 and 1272 spi that are somehow overacheiving though, its possible.
carmadaaron
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Post by carmadaaron »

'120' along a straight, is that with a slight incline tho?
Phoenix
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Post by Phoenix »

i don't know what has been done to my engine but a recent strip down and headgaskets change showed no signs of wear what-so-ever, also in 25k miles i've done its only ever had one oil change :lol:

dunno whats going on but my engine is a deffo strange one!!!!!

see some of you guys tonite :P
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