Mk3 GT engine! Help pls

[atomic_pope]

Hi, i've just joined this forum today, didn't even realise it existed until porka.net went down and i was forced to look around!

Anyway, i bought a GT the other day for £60 which apparantly had just died on the previous owner, he was very vague about what happened but mentioned something about the timing belt.

Ive picked up the car now and had a look at the engine etc and from what i can tell (untrained eye!) everything looks fine.

Now i've been warned about trying to start her, as if there is a problem with the timing belt it could cause further problems to the engine...but so far i've not actually turned the key in the ignition further than just checking the electrics are all working (which they are!).

Are there any reccomendations of what i should have a look at or anything? Ive been told to check the timing markers but cant see what these are...like i said im not too good with engines!!!

Thanks guys

Andy

[optima21]

the timing markers are easy enough to spot and there are two of them.

1) on the pulley on the crankshaft (that drives the alternator) there is a small notch cut out that should line up with the timing pointer thats just above the pulley (its like a metal plate that sticks out)

2) on the camshaft pulley you will see a tiny dot about 2mm wide thats an indentation in the pulley. This should line up with the point on the arrow shaped moulding thasts just below the pulley. (you will need to remove the cam belt cover to see it though)

if both of these items line up, the the camshaft is in the correct place. (well near enough to turn it over)

[atomic_pope]

Great, ill check that when i finish work.

If they line up do you think it would be a good idea to try starting the engine? Or is that likely to do more damage?!

Thanks for that.

[Gareth_GT_Hatch]

Great, ill check that when i finish work.

If they line up do you think it would be a good idea to try starting the engine? Or is that likely to do more damage?!

Thanks for that.

Just put a post up about this on the gt forum. If the timing marks do line up then its worth giving it a try but i doubt itll run if he says it hasnt ran. I suspect a fuel or ignition problem (something electrical anyway) What mileage has it done?

[atomic_pope]

Just put a post up about this on the gt forum. If the timing marks do line up then its worth giving it a try but i doubt itll run if he says it hasnt ran. I suspect a fuel or ignition problem (something electrical anyway) What mileage has it done?

Thanks, ill try it out if they match up, im hoping thats not the problem. But then if its not what is it?!?!

The mileage is only at 113k so its too big for a J reg. Just had £300 on the Mot in Feb too!

[atomic_pope]

Right, i've checked out the timing belt as much as i could...didnt have a sufficient tool set so couldnt rotate the bloody thing to line up the timing markers, but the belt is definitely intact!

When trying to start the engine however there is power but all that i hear is a slight 'clunk'. I know thats not right! Could that just be something as simple as the starter motor solenoid?

If anyone has any ideas i'd be keen to hear them. Ta guys

[hayesey]

if there is power in the battery & the starter isnt doing anything then I'd think it was a knackered starter.

unless there is an immobiliser fitted to the car which is cocking things up.

[madmatt]

try jump leads to another battery red to both + batt posts and black to something metal on engine usaly engine craine hook and try starting it my mk2 did this and when i did the above it started if it starts check your earth straps one above alternater to body one from batt - post to body
check connectios on starter
try taping starter with hamma while igniton on crank if that dont work try striping starter and soaking motor bushes in parifin to clean it

[atomic_pope]

if there is power in the battery & the starter isnt doing anything then I'd think it was a knackered starter.

unless there is an immobiliser fitted to the car which is cocking things up.

Well there's definately power in the battery, but i could try conencting it to my working GT pretty easily, worth a go in the morning. If not i'll have a look at the starter motor and see if thats screwed, should be able to get one from a scrappies for a coupla quid.

Cheers

[Tahrey1043]

remembering of course that if the belt went while he was going along there's good chance some or maybe all (if high revs) of the valves are damaged in some way? In which case its £££ to fix...

it was the phrase...

he was very vague about what happened but mentioned something about the timing belt.

...that sounded alarm bells in head!

there's chance he reckoned on it being cheap enough to get a replacement belt (about six quid) and fit it himself to see if the engine was salvagable and by some miracle hadn't suffered major damage - then when it wouldnt start, flogged it on to you (£60 for a lot of breakable parts, you could still do well out of it). Perhaps the battery is worn from both repeated failed re-start attempts (including those before it became apparent car was not going anywhere at the point where it originally died) and from standing a while. Give it a short charge up and try bump-starting it if starter doesn't rotate? (( i however can't beleive if the battery/motor is playing up or not strong enough to rotate the crank, that someone would sell the car in preference to trying this themselves - if it'll start and run off you doing that, you've just met the dumbest/least patient owner ever ))

just be prepared for pain - a belt that's all present and correct doesnt mean a lot if he's *mumbling* a confession about the thing giving way... with a decent torque socket set and a long bladed screwdriver i could change it myself for very little outlay or trouble.

if all else fails, double check it's properly lined up (take the belt cover off, see where the marks are and get a protractor to compare angles if you cant shift it! or push back/forth in top gear with handbrake off if you're brave) then have someone gently tow it or a couple of mates push it, again with it in top gear/ignition off, and listen for any ominous noises from the motor. it should only make the most benign of phutting noises if alls well on rotating with no fuel/spark.

best of luck mate! if he is dumb enough not to have tried a jump/bump start and it's just a weak battery or knackered solenoid/starter motor, you've got a right bargain! (and all the bits you could take out and sell make it a mint at £60 anyway!)

[atomic_pope]

if it'll start and run off you doing that, you've just met the dumbest/least patient owner ever ))

Well heere's why i think he was being vague because when i met the guy he was basically asleep being a night worker, well thats what i thought anyway...obviously night workers are going to be asleep in the daytime. But now that i've purchased the car and found that in the glove box are about 10 packets of Rizla it seems more apparant that this guy just smokes a hell of alot of weed, and he really didnt seem to have any knowledge about cars (even less than me which is amazing!) so thats why im hoping that its something simple.

Ill try all your suggestions though, need to get a proper tool set really to move the crankshaft, after than i guess it's actually looking at the valves!

Thanks Tahrey

[Tahrey1043]

But now that i've purchased the car and found that in the glove box are about 10 packets of Rizla it seems more apparant that this guy just smokes a hell of alot of weed

lololol

have a root around under the rear bench, see if any of his mates dropped some reefer down there

[atomic_pope]

have a root around under the rear bench, see if any of his mates dropped some reefer down there

I've had a good old root around through the whole car and theres nothing other than:

1- rubbish
2- rizla
3- an unused diary!
4- a TV remote!!
5- Jump leads (nice!)

Besides, theres no interior so nowhere to drop a lil bag of green!

Oh, and in regards to the car i;ve now tested it connected up to my car with my newly aquired jump leads and checked all the fuses too. The fuses are fine and the jump start didnt get it going either!!!

Just a clunking noise and the engine moving forward slightly...cant be good!

[madmatt]

PUT A SOCKET ON A RATCHET AND USE IT ON THE BOLT ON THE CRANK PULLY AND TURN THE ENGINE WITH IT THIS WILL SEE IF ITS SEIZED (turn ENGINE CLOCKWISE )

[Tahrey1043]

3- an unused diary!
4- a TV remote!!

you're about £15 up on that £60 already!

5- Jump leads (nice!)

...£30, or £35-40 if they're any cop!
(what was it on the bangernomics website that said about giving your car a THOROUGH clean-out before selling it at a bargain basement price to make sure you're not actually losing money? )

Just be careful if they're cheap ones (thin wire, flimsy little crocodile clip connectors that barely fit over the battery terminals) - Polo needs quite hardcore leads for reliable and safe jump-starting, considering the engines arent any bigger than 1272cc... I burnt out TWO sets of 1300cc leads on separate occasions with the 1-litre, and now i'm onto 1600s... seem to do ok but still get pretty warm! (started an old 1400 golf i ran across broken-down with very little trouble )

Besides, theres no interior so nowhere to drop a lil bag of green!

Another reason it was cheap then! What, you mean like no seats?!

The fuses are fine and the jump start didnt get it going either!!!
Just a clunking noise and the engine moving forward slightly...cant be good!

Well, again, just be careful with those leads, if it's all jammed up then more than a few seconds trying might melt their connections or burn the insulation, not to mention burning the starter (a "stalled" electric motor draws an insane amount of power - and most of it goes to heat as its not moving). And again if they're crap, they might not be capable of providing enough juice to turn over a sticky old polo engine.

Get a couple strong guys to give you a help, maneuver it onto the flat in neutral, then engage top and "firmly but gently" you all give it a push, one of you at the front door pillar (door closed, window open - ignition off!) with the bonnet up and cambelt cover off, keep a good eye and ear on what the engine's doing. If it's clear it doesn't want to turn at all, break off before you destroy something... but it shouldn't be too difficult to turn it over in top gear - in fact if you're brave, you can jack up one wheel and do it by hand by firmly grabbing each side of the tyre and twisting in the forwards direction... have a slightly looser grip when you feel resistance though, in case it kicks back and breaks your wrists, exactly the same theory as with an old starter handle! Doesn't need to go far even in top gear to complete a full turn of the engine, only about ~15 to 18 inches in 4th for example.

After having said all that - if you're sure the starters fine but it wont turn the engine, i would be *very* careful... the thing has enough power to jerk the car along in top gear for a short distance quicker than you could push it after all! So it could be very sticky!

The safest thing of course, if you're up to (and for) it, is to do a minor stripdown.... follow the haynes (or whatever you prefer) procedure for replacing the head gasket to the point where you've got the cylinder head off, and take a good look at the top of the cylinders and the state of the valves - when the two parts are apart it's also a whole lot easier (zero compression) and a lot safer (no risk of "collision") to rotate the cam and the crank to check for seizure and look for damage, so long as you can get 'em lined back up again